Re: [TruthTalk] God's Eye View

[Bill Taylor]

Izzy wrote  >  Is it too hard for you to imagine that if God is speaking the same thing to each of us that we will actually agree on what He said?  Is this too hard for you? One can be a �real� Christian and yet not hear God because of various impediments; don�t you agree?   That is the point, Izzy: which one of us is truly hearing the voice of the shepherd, and which is not? Of course God would be speaking the same to both of us, if indeed he were speaking to us both. But the fact remains, Izzy, that once we have both spoken what we believe is the truth from God, we often find that our statements contradict each other, and it hits us that at best only one of us can be speaking from the vantage point of that God's-eye view. And as a matter of fact, we do both believe we are right about what we believe and that we have received this "truth" from the Spirit of God, yet we often disagree, and so, which one of us truly does have the God's-eye view? Do either of us speak from this vantage point? I think not. And so I ask you: How do you know that you, Izzy, and you alone, are the one who is right? Remember, you are talking to another Christian here, one who wants to please the Lord every bit as much as you do. And so that we do not lose track of the fact that this is not personal between us, let us recognize that this same tension presents itself throughout the entire church of Jesus Christ. We live in a time where Christians in general do not agree with other Christians and this is evidenced the moment that substance or meaning is added to our religious jargon. We all say we believe in Jesus Christ, but as soon as we start to define the words in that statement the disagreements arise: What does it mean to believe, and who is this Jesus? I think it is tragic to dismiss it all by saying, "Well, if you were sensitive to the whispers of the Spirit, you could have the mind of Christ, but since you aren't, you must be prideful, or you are immature, or you are this, and you are that." The truth is, Christians are clutching a lie -- it gives them false hope in the one hand, this myth of certainty, and then it rips them apart with the other, when they find that they cannot agree on even the most basic points. How ever truth is revealed, it meets us in the forest, where we live and relate, and it is worked out in participation amongst the trees, not from above them. True truth keeps us humble and makes us gracious as we seek together to know our Lord. This, again, is a very difficult truth to learn.   Bill   ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:59 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] God's Eye View Izzy in blue�   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Taylor Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:41 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] God's Eye View   I asked   >   When they tell you this, does it make you wrong and them right? Do you immediately abandon your new insight?   Izzy answered  >  It�s never happened�I guess I�ve been hearing His voice, as He promised. J   What about on those occasions when you and I have disagreed, Izzy?  Then one of us is not hearing the Holy Spirit (or communicating it clearly.)  ___________________________________   I asked   >    Why can't Christians seem to see things the same if we are all indwelt with this mind-of-Christ-in-us capability?   Izzy answered  >  We do!     That really is it, isn't it, Izzy? Your theology has now forced you into the position of having to imply that the "real" Christians do agree with you, and that the rest of us who call ourselves Christian but do not see things the way you do, are not really hearing the Shepherd's voice. Tell me, Izzy, how big is the fold, and how do you know you are in it?  Is it too hard for you to imagine that if God is speaking the same thing to each of us that we will actually agree on what He said?  Is this too hard for you? One can be a �real� Christian and yet not hear God because of various impediments; don�t you agree? ____________________________________   Izzy wrote  >   I have not had many prophecies for the Body, as I do not have the office of prophet.  Apparently, neither do you.    Suppose I tell you I am a prophet, Izzy; I've had a visitation from a man or an angel, I don't know for sure, but he told me I am a prophet of God, and a couple of my brothers have confirmed this truth. Suppose I say now that I have received teaching from God on this matter and that your "insight," which you thought had come to you by the Holy Spirit, was actually a word from demons: your "shepherd" is a frog. Would you believe me now, that I have a God's-eye view on your supposed "truth"?  A true prophet is never wrong in his prophecies.  Your hypothetical questions assume that a true prophet would contradict a truth spoken to me by God.  This is not possible. However if I did not hear clearly from God because of sin in my life, rebellion, or embracing false teaching, I would welcome correction by a true prophet.  If I did not receive it, that would be my great loss. Do you feel the same? Izzy   Bill