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No.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:40
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] vessels meet for
masters use
Thanks, Do you see why I would ask, from the following?
Jesus Christ has a dual nature � Jesus the mortal
man and Christ the spiritual idea of man. Jesus is the human man, and
Christ is the divine idea; hence, the duality of Jesus the
Christ.� (Science and Health, 473:10-17)
Kevin asks, Do you have some [Christian
Science] background?
No, Kevin, none at all. I know very little
about the movement. I also have nothing to do with the "Divine in man &
the Christ consciousness" stuff that you rightly are concerned
about.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005
5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] vessels meet
for masters use
I should hope you would not teach such. It is just that without
the Blood there is NO Redemption. To start focusing on the life may be to
tread a slippery slope. We are told to avoid foolish & unlearned
questions. I believe this to be a safeguard for Pure doctrine. To venture
where scripture is silent is to go out on a limb. If it was important then
God's word would direct us in any particular doctrine. There is a saying
"get your head out of the Prophecy sky and your feet on the gospel
ground." There are many plain things in the scriptures that we should
concentrate on
I put up the links because this sounds a lot like the Divine in
man & the Christ consciousness stuff of a number of Demonic teachers I
have researched in the past. This is their focus. In some
ways you sound "Christian Science" maybe it is just the choice of words
you use.
Bill Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Thanks, Kevin, for the information. I hope
you do not think I am arguing that there could be redemption apart of
the shedding of (Jesus') blood. That is not my argument at all. Perhaps
at sometime in the future you may want to revisit this discussion; at
that time I will be very willing to speak further on the subject. Until
that time should arrive, however, it appears that we are at an impasse.
Again, thanks for the information and for your concern.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005
10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] vessels
meet for masters use
Yes jesus priestly function is an important one. but what does
that have to do with the actual act of redmption and the
Atonement?
If he had lived a perfect life No Sin No sins of Commision or
Omiision No error
and had He not been offered as our sacrifice we would have NO
REDEMPTION. There is a necessity for the DEATH of the testator!
Without the shedding of Blood NO REMISSION The efficacious
portion of the work was done on Calvalry as we have seen in the Holy
Bible
It has nothing to do with a violent death as some Greek scholars
err, nor is it to do with his life as the Satanic Alice Bailey
says.
"The effort to carry out to perfection the will of God brought to
an end the most complete life that had been lived on earth."
This is the stuff Heresy is made of
See Celestial messages Here we have evil spirits talking
thru spirit channellers saying the same thing!
http://new-birth.net/tgrabjvol1/bible51.htm
For nearly two thousand years this false doctrine of the atonement has
been believed in and accepted by the so called Christian churches, and
has been promulgated by these churches as the true doctrine of Jesus
and the one upon which the salvation of man depends; and the
consequences have been that men have believed that the only things
necessary to their salvation and reconciliation to God, were the death
of Jesus and the washing away of their sins by the blood shed on
Calvary.
If men only knew how futile his death was and how
inefficacious his blood is to wash away sin and pay the debt
to the Father, they would not rest in the assurance that all they have
to do is to believe in this sacrifice and this blood, but would learn
the true plan of salvation and make every effort in their power to
follow that plan, and as a consequence, have their souls developed so
that they would come into harmony with the Father's love and laws
http://www.divinelove.org TRUE
GOSPEL REVEALED ANEW BY JESUS?
http://www.christianway.org/CS%20and%20the%20Bible/Jesus.htm
Christian
Science: Jesus Christ has a
dual nature � Jesus the mortal man and Christ the spiritual
idea of man. Jesus is the human man, and Christ is the divine
idea; hence, the duality of Jesus the Christ.� (Science and
Health, 473:10-17)
CS The efficacy of the
crucifixion lay in the practical affection and
goodness it demonstrated for mankind. The
truth had been lived among men; but until they saw that it
enabled their Master to triumph over the grave, his own disciples
could not admit such an event to be possible. . . .
CS The efficacy of Jesus� spiritual offering is
infinitely greater than can be expressed by our sense of human blood.
The material blood of Jesus was no more efficacious to cleanse
from sin when it was shed upon �the accursed tree,� than when
it was flowing in his veins as he went daily about his Father�s
business.� (Science and Health, 24:20-31, 25:3-9)
CS �One sacrifice, however great, is insufficient to pay the debt
of sin. The atonement requires constant self-immolation on the
sinner�s part
http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/aquinas/acreed10.htm
THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS We must also know that not
only the efficacy of the Passion of Christ is
communicated to us, but also the merits of His life;
and, moreover, all the good that all the Saints have done is
communicated to all who are in the state of grace, because all are
one: "I am a partaker of all them that fear Thee."[16] Therefore, he
who lives in charity participates in all the good that is done in the
entire world; but more specially does he benefit for whom some good
work is done; since one man certainly can satisfy for another.[17]
Thus, through this communion we receive two benefits. One is that the
merits of Christ are communicated to all; the other is that the good
of one is communicated to another. Those who are excommunicated,
however, because they are cut off from the Church, forfeit their part
http://www.spandayoga.org/grace.html
It is God�s Grace that leads you to the Master, known as a Siddha,
Guru or Acharya, who is the grace-bestowing power of God, and a
Teacher. And it is the Master�s Grace that sets you on your own path
back to God. Grace is the beginning, the middle and the end. Nothing
can be accomplished without Grace.
Once you have learned to
recognize Grace, you are able to follow it, allowing Grace to uplift
and transform your life.
I care not to Believe
Doctrines of Devils
"without shedding of blood is no
remission"
Friend, it is not thine experience-it is the blood. God did not
say, "When I see your experience," but, "When I see the blood of
Christ." Acquire experience, cultivate the Christian graces. But, oh,
do not put them where Christ's blood ought to be.
Bill Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I think you are viewing this too
restrictively, Kevin. I hope you will come to consider it in a
broader context. May I ask you a couple questions? What kind of
a priest would Christ be, had he not learned obedience through the
things he suffered? Does this suffering apply only to his death? I
think not: "For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He
is able to aid those who are tempted."
Hebrews 2.14-18: "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of
flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that
through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that
is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all
their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid
to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore,
in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be
a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to
make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself
has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are
tempted."
His redemptive work certainly
culminated into a great climax at the cross -- but it did not
consist only of the cross. For instance, as we see in these verses,
the propitiation which he secured at the cross must be viewed
as inclusive of the entirety of his life; for where would we be
today without his priestly mediation? and how could he be our
merciful and faithful High Priest, had he not in all things been
made like his brethren to make propitiation for our
sins?
"Though He was a Son, yet He
learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been
perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey
Him, called by God as High Priest . . ." (Heb 5.8-10).
Anyway, I hope you will
consider this. I will not push it any further.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 19,
2005 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
vessels meet for masters use
To sin once is to be guilty of breaking ALL the law!
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the
whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of
all.
Which would
make Him guilty and fit for HELL FIRE.
it was His death that ATONED for MY sin
"Without the shedding of blood is no
remission"
No matter how nice one may or may not seem. Before I was Born
Again I was an ENEMY of God
Rm 6 But God commendeth
his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us. Much more then, being
now justified by his blood, we shall be
saved from wrath through him. For if, when we
were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the
death of his Son
RM 3 Whom God hath set
forth to be a propitiation through faith in his
blood, to declare his righteousness for the
remission of sins
Col 1 In whom we have redemption through his
blood, even the forgiveness of sins
Hebrews How much more
shall the blood of Christ, who through the
eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge
your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that
by means of death, for the
redemption of the transgressions that were under
the first testament, they which are called might receive the
promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there
must also of necessity be the death of the
testator. ...
without shedding of
blood is no remission
So we see we are reconciled by His death
We are justified by His blood
We are Redeemed thru His blood
He is the propitiation thru FAITH in His blood
D A
Waite The Bible is silent as
to "HIS WHOLE LIFE" as forming any basis whatever for "THE
REDEMPTIVE EFFICACY OF CHRIST'S WORK." It was as the "LAMB OF GOD"
that He could "take away the sin of the world" (John 1:29), and
this "LAMB" was crucified and shed His precious blood (1 Peter
1:18-19) as the atonement and sacrifice for the sins of the whole
world! "Without the shedding of blood is no remission" (Hebrews
9:22). To say that Christ's "WHOLE LIFE" had anything to do with
the "REDEMPTIVE EFFICACY OF CHRIST'S WORK" is to partake of the
HERESY of modernistic religious APOSTASY!
Bill Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Westcott believed that the redemptive efficacy of Christ's
work was to be "found in his whole life" rather than in his
death.
I am somewhat perplexed as to the
"offense" of the above, Kevin. I understand that you do not hold
to the same view as I, concerning the inward nature of Christ's
humanity, but Westcott's belief seems to be a "true"
even under your view. What would it have done to the redemptive
efficacy of Christ's work if he had sinned at some point
throughout his life? Was it not via his whole obedience
that he fulfilled the Law? It seems to me that
obedience to the Law was very much a part of his redemptive
work. Do you disagree?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February
19, 2005 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
vessels meet for masters use
Yes, unequivically! He uses
'rascals' like those on TT so..............?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 19, 2005
08:19
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] vessels meet for masters use
Would God use rascals like these in the translation or
for that matter any of his work?
The new versions come from W&H's contrived text.
First Nazi's, then Perverts and now Heretics as the
Fathers of the Modern translations.
http://wayoflife.org/otimothy/tl09000c.htm
Westcott and Hort held a vague or erroneous position on
inspiration, revelation, or inerrancy.
Westcott embraced
the heresy of the universal Fatherhood of God.
Westcott
denies that God had to be propitiated.
Westcott taught
that men could be divine in some way.
Westcott espoused
evolution in various ways.
Westcott had a heretical
theory of man's sinfulness and depravity, believing in man's
perfectibility in various ways.
Westcott and Hort failed
to affirm the personality of the Devil, calling him only a
power.
Westcott and Hort denied that Heaven is a place,
speaking of it as a state.
Westcott believed that the
redemptive efficacy of Christ's work was to be "found in his
whole life" rather than in his death.
Westcott questioned
the eternal preexistence of the Lord Jesus
Christ.
Westcott and Hort denied the deity of Jesus
Christ.
Westcott explained away some of the miracles of
Christ.
Westcott and Hort denied or gave a false meaning
to the literal, bodily resurrection of Christ.
Westcott
and Hort had a false and heretical view of the vicarious,
substitutionary sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.
http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/rlister/wh/wh.htm
Westcott: "My faith
is still wavering. I cannot determine how
much we must believe; how much, in fact, is necessarily
required of a member of the Church." (Life, Vol.I,
p.46).
Westcott: "After leaving the monastery
we shaped our course to a little oratory...It is very small,
with one kneeling-place; and behind a screen was a
'Pieta' the size of life (i.e. a Virgin and dead
Christ)...I could not help thinking on the grandeur of the
Romish Church, on her zeal even in error, on her earnestness
and self-devotion, which we might, with nobler views and a
purer end, strive to imitate. Had I been alone I could have
knelt there for hours." (Life, Vol.I, p.81).
Westcott: "All stigmatise him (a Dr.
Hampden) as a 'heretic,'...I thought myself
that he was grievously in error, but yesterday I read over
the selections from his writings which his adversaries make,
and in them I found systematically expressed the very
strains of thought which I have been endeavouring to trace
out for the last two or three years. If he be condemned,
what will become of me?" (Life,
Vol.I,p.94).
Hort: "But the book which has most
engaged me is Darwin. Whatever may be
thought of it, it is a book that one is proud to be
contemporary with. I must work out and examine the argument
in more detail, but at present my feeling is strong that the
theory is unanswerable." (Life, Vol.I,
p.416).
Hort: "I entirely agree -
correcting one word - with what you there say on the
Atonement, having for many years believed that "the absolute
union of the Christian (or rather, of man) with Christ
Himself" is the spiritual truth of which the popular
doctrine of substitution is an immoral and material
counterfeit...Certainly nothing can be more unscriptural
than the modern limiting of Christ's bearing our sins and
sufferings to His death; but indeed that is only one aspect
of an almost universal heresy." (Life, Vol.I, p.430).
Hort: "I have been persuaded for many
years that Mary-worship and 'Jesus'-worship
have very much in common in their causes and their results."
(Life, Vol.II, p.50).
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