It does mean something TWO members were killed and your Prophet enabled Hoffman by backing him financialy
The 48 number is what could be coaxed out of them even in spite of leagl warrants. The dissimulation and half truths started with a couple and finally made it to "40 or so"
How can we trust them on how many?
Not only was the whole 1st Pres fooled about the Character of Hoffman & his Doc's but they bout one that purported to be a "Lost" revelation from God "Thus saith the Lord" So the "prophet" could not even distinguish the veracity of Gods word!
He bought Forged Revelations!
The purpose of the argument is not to vilify but to show that the "prophet" is not what the claims of the Church would make him to be. Follow the Prophet he will never lead you ASTRAY is a FALSE MAXIM as demonstrated by the whole First Pres This is not vilifying these are FACTS
vil�i�fy To make vicious and defamatory statements about. malign
John Adams "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of the facts and evidence"
"Facts are facts and will not disappear on account of your likes"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
BLAINE: But but you said "hundreds." Only forty-eight, this time? Sure
now?
By the way, other than the loss of some money, what does this mean? YOUR
ATTEMPT TO VILLIFY LEADERS OF THE CHURCH BECAUSE THEY FELL FOR Hoffman's
duplicity means nothing in the long view of things. It only shakes the
faith of the faithless like yourself. Dirt-digging is Kevin's way of
telling us . . . . about himself.
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:02:53 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes:
> You should be careful when you accuse others of exaggerating. it is
> you who need to do your homework Why would the church want to buy &
> hide a document purporting Joe talking to a Salamander, anyway?
> Salt Lake Tribune, Feb. 6, 1986: "Sources close to the
> investigation have said the church apparently did little to
> authenticate many of these documents before they were purchased,
> stating that church historians felt 'they had time and all eternity'
> to check their veracity. 'They just wanted them off the streets,'
> the source said."
> We are talking about 48 known documents transferred during multiple
> transactions.
> Hoffman said he was certain that the church leaders wouldn't find
> out by inspiration that they were being duped. Hoffman Confession
>
> Deseret News on May 3, 1980.
> http://www.utlm.org/images/tracking/trackingp73_a.jpg
> http://www.utlm.org/images/tracking/trackingp73_b.jpg
>
http://www.utlm.org/images/tracking/trackingp72sup_ensignanthontranscript
.jpg
> http://www.utlm.org/images/tracking/trackingp73_b.jpg
> http://www.utlm.org/images/tracking/trackingp73_a.jpg
> Neither President Kimball nor any of the other General Authorities
> seem to be able to detect anything wrong with either "Brother
> Hofmann" or the Anthon transcript.
>
> Bruce R. McConkie, formerly a member of the Quorum of the Twelve
> Apostles, in his book Mormon Doctrine under the heading Discernment:
> ". . . the gift of the discerning of spirits is poured out upon
> presiding officials in God's kingdom; they have it given to them to
> discern all gifts and all spirits, lest any come among the saints
> and practice deception. . . Thereby even 'the thoughts and intents
> of the heart' are made known."
>
> Salt Lake Tribune, April 19, 1986, "Convoluted deals involving the
> attempted sale of million-dollar documents, the manufacturing of
> plates to counterfeit 'Mormon money' and the seemingly blind trust
> of LDS officials in bombing suspect Mark W. Hofmann dominated the
> fifth day of his preliminary bearing Friday....
>
> "The defense would like to ask President Hinckley about the
> church leader's role in pressuring Mr. Hofmann to pay back an
> overdue $185,000 bank loan arranged by another church elder." (Salt
> Lake Tribune, May 6, 1986)
>
> "The LDS Church News pointed out that 'The Church is mentioned
> most often as victim in the 28-count complaint against Hofmann' with
> 'the majority of the counts deal[ing] with historical documents of
> interest to the Church and involving at least a half million dollars
> and a number of victims'... Sunstone Theological Symposium, John
> Heinerman and Anson Shupe
>
> 1. May '80--Hofmann trades the Anthon transcript to Hinckley for
> $20,000 worth of other authentic old documents from the vaults. This
> is the one that appeared in all the newspapers with Hofmann,
> Hinckley, Kimball and others sitting around the table together.
> Kimball was examining the document while holding a magnifying glass.
> Guess he should have used a seer stone, eh?
>
> 2. Feb '81--father's blessing from Joseph Smith the prophet to
> Joseph Smith III, stating that the young boy was next in line to
> lead the church. $10,000+ cash.
>
> 3. Mar '81--"Valley Notes" early Mormon currency certificates,
> $20,000.
>
> 4. Mar '82--Martin Harris Testimony, $20,000 in trade for other
> authentic historical documents.
>
> 5. July '82--"Lucy Mack Letter", $30,000+ in trade for other
> authentic historical documents.
>
> 6. Sept '82--"Maid of Iowa" riverboat tickets, $7,500.
>
> 7. Jan '83--"Stowell Money-Digging Letter to Joseph Smith", $15,000
> cash received directly from Hinckley with the parting comment- "this
> is one letter that will never see the light of day."
>
> 8. Jan '84--"Salamander Letter", $40,000.
>
> 9. Oct '84--"Betsy Ross letter" $12,000.
>
> 10. Nov '84--"Jim Bridger signatures", $10,000.
>
> 11. June '85--"McLellin Papers" $185,000.
>
> 12. July '85--"Martin Harris Personal Copy of 'View of the Hebrews'"
> sold directly to Hinckley for an undisclosed amount.
>
> 13. Aug '85--"David Whitmer Letter", sold directly to Hinckley for
> an undisclosed amount.
>
> 14. Oct '85--Hinckley extends $500,000 line of credit to Steve
> Christensen to locate and purchase damaging documents with Hofmann's
> assistance.
>
> 15. Oct '85--"Kinderhook Translation", Direct offer from Hinckley to
> purchase for $150,000, but due to the bombings the sale was never
> completed.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> BLAINE: Hundreds? Millions? More of Kevin's exaggerating and
> dirt-digging, ho hum. Yawn. Time to knock off and hit the sack.
>
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:25:47 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan
> writes:
> > BLAINE says Only those who build on the sure rock will
> continue--that
> > rock is revelation given through the true servants of the Lord.
> >
> > He is that sure foundation buying hundreds of Forged documents for
>
> > Millions in Tithe money
> > Follow the prophet he will never lead you astray
> > The muderer & forger Hoffman fooled the whole first presidency
> > including Hinckley (far right)
> > The SEER can't see even with a LOOKING Glass!
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > BLAINE: The miracle was that he had a spiritual experience
> > convincing
> > him of his sins and that the BoM was true after all. You must have
>
> > just
> > read the headlines.
> > Bytheway, I want to tell you something. The LDS Church will
> continue
> > to
> > advance and grow, because the people who are minding the store, so
>
> > to
> > speak, have received their commission from above. You and your
> > street
> > preacher friends stand in your own light, each one advancing his
> own
> > cause, and his own slant on what true doctrine ought to be. You
> are
> > destined to fall. Sooner or later, it will happen, so you'd better
>
> > start
> > watching the curves the LDS Church throw you, Kevin, they will
> > inevitably
> > win the war. You and your boys may win a battle now and again, but
>
> > the
> > impetus is in favor of the LDS Church--it grows despite
> persecution
> > and
> > opposition. It has proven that numerous times.
> > Speaking concerning His servants--LDS missionaries, prophets,
> > apostles,
> > etc.--called up and chosen in these last days, the Lord has said:
> >
> > "Wherefore, fear and tremble , O ye people, for what I have
> decreed
> > in
> > them shall be fulfilled. . . . And the arm of the Lord shall be
> > revealed;
> > and the day cometh that THEY who will not hear the voice of the
> > Lord,
> > NEITHER THE VOICE OF HIS SERVANTS, NEITHER GIVE HEED TO THE WORDS
> OF
> > THE
> > PROPHETS AND APOSTLES, shall be cut off from among the people, for
>
> > THEY
> > have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine
> everlastuing
> > covenant; THEY SEEK NOT THE LORD TO ESTABLISH HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS,
> but
> > every man walketh in his own way, . . . "
> > D&C 1:7-17
> >
> > It is the Lord's righteousness we are to advance, Kevin, not our
> own
> > opinions, beliefs, dogmas, commandments, etc. Spiritual darkness
> > covers
> > all the earth--it is rapidly ripening for destruction. Only those
> > who
> > build on the sure rock will continue--that rock is revelation
> given
> > through the true servants of the Lord.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan
> > writes:
> > > Maybe he should personally make reparations to the LDS also!
> > > AND he "performs" miracles WOW it must be of God
> > >
> > > Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
> > power
> > > and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of
> > > unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not
> the
> >
> > > love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause
> > God
> > > shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a
> > lie:That
> > > they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had
> > > pleasure in unrighteousness
> > >
> > >
> > > 39-Year Baptist Minister Turned Charismatic Mormon Remnant
> > Gatherer
> > > http://www.greaterthings.com/Ridenhour/
> > >
> > > WATCH OUT OR THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > For years and years I preached from the pulpit that Mormonism
> was
> > of
> > > the devil, that Joseph Smith was the founder of a cult. As a
> > > conservative Baptist minister I believed it vehemently with
> every
> > > fiber of my being. I was quite a "crusader for the truth,"
> > > meaning--about as anti-Mormon as you can get. I hung out with
> John
> >
> > > Ankerberg and Jerry Fallwell. I shamed my opponents, publicly
> > > confronted them, humiliated them wrote literature against them
> and
> >
> > > campaigned from door to door with my fellow evangelical
> ministers.
> >
> > > All in the name of Truth.
> > >
> > > Then it happened...
> > >
> > > One day our loving Father very quietly, very unassuming, but
> very
> > > very convincingly--without the help of any human instrument--let
>
> > me
> > > know that the precious restoration gospel, the Book of Mormon,
> and
> >
> > > Joseph Smith were each sent to us from God our Father. Up 'till
> > that
> > > moment, I had my paradigm (Mormonism is of the devil) and our
> > > brothers have theirs (patriotism and Christianity are aligned).
> > Let
> > > God be God. And let it go.
> > >
> > > Lynn
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > Missouri Mob Descendant Apologizes to Mormons, Performs Miracles
> > > For Immediate Release
> > > Jan. 24, 2005
> > >
> > > By Greater Things News Service
> > > (Not officially affiliated with Ezekiel Conference)
> > >
> > >
> > > Lynn Ridenhour addresses
> > > the Ezekiel Conference at the
> > > Unitarian Church on Highland
> > > Drive in Salt Lake City,
> > > January 22, 2005
> > >
> > >
> > > click for high-res
> > > Lynn Ridenhour with Sterling
> > > Allan a Mormon descendant,
> > > who put his arm around
> > > Ridenhour while he was
> > > seeking to regain his
> > > composure while tearfully
> > > reading the Statement of
> > > Repentance. Allan introduced
> > > Ridenhour to John Bayley a
> > > couple of years ago, and they
> > > have been partners in ministry
> > > ever since.
> > >
> > >
> > > SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- Southern Baptist Minister, Lynn
> Ridenhour,
> >
> > > issued
> > > a tearful public apology Saturday to the Mormons for the actions
>
> > of
> > > his
> > > ancestors in persecuting and driving the Mormons from Missouri
> in
> > > the
> > > 1800's. Speaking at the invitation of the Ezekiel Seminar in
> Salt
> > > Lake
> > > City on Jan. 22, 2005, Ridenhour read a prepared statement which
>
> > was
> > > warmly received by the audience of 160 predominantly Mormon
> > > participants,
> > > who embraced him and offered their forgiveness in turn.
> > >
> > > Ridenhour's statement said that though he was raised and trained
>
> > to
> > > speak
> > > against the Mormons as a cult, he came to see that while their
> > > beliefs
> > > are different, they are not a cult.
> > >
> > > Having discovered in his family history that his Missouri
> > ancestors
> > > "were
> > > involved in the Mormon War, running the Mormons out of the
> state,"
> >
> > > he
> > > took occasion in his speaking engagement to offer the apology on
>
> > > behalf
> > > of his ancestors and to ask for forgiveness.
> > >
> > > Ridenhour presently resides in Independence, Missouri, where he
> > > leads a
> > > charismatic revival that includes an honored place for the Book
> of
> > > Mormon.
> > >
> > > The "Statement of Repentance" was read in the course of a
> lecture
> > > titled,
> > > "I'm looking for a church," in which he itemized five aspects
> > which
> > > all
> > > turned out to be features of the LDS Church at the time of
> Joseph
> > > Smith:
> > > Manifest presence of God, taking God out of the "box",
> prophetic,
> > > welcomes signs and wonders, worshippers.
> > >
> > > Ridenhour told of going through accounts of Mormon History and
> > > documenting the number of manifestations of the various gifts of
>
> > the
> > > spirit, from speaking in tongues, to raising the dead, healing
> the
> >
> > > sick
> > > and appearances of angels. He also told of his experience
> reading
> > > the
> > > Book of Mormon for the first time. "It was like being born again
>
> > --
> > > again!" "The Book of Mormon is more Baptist than the Baptist
> > > hymnal," he
> > > said, referencing the core Baptists doctrines propounded there.
> > >
> > > He was recently contacted by a key leader figure in the
> > Pentecostal
> > > church who asked him if he really believed in the Book of
> Mormon,
> > > and
> > > then confessed that he too has been a believer for many years,
> but
> >
> > > has
> > > not been able to come out of the closet because of his position
> in
> >
> > > the
> > > Pentecostal church. Ridenhour has scheduled a time not long from
>
> > now
> > > to
> > > have this minister come to Independence and go on record
> publicly
> > as
> > > a
> > > Book of Mormon believer. Being over some 168 congregations, his
> > > confession ought to turn some heads.
> > >
> > > At the end of the conference, Ridenhour, along with his
> > ministerial
> > > partner, John Bayley -- also a Book of Mormon believer and
> Mormon
> > > lover
> > > -- ministered to the group assembled, performing several
> miracles
> > of
> > > healing and giving "a word of knowledge" to numerous people who
> > were
> > > astonished at the accuracy of the words of inspired wisdom being
>
> > > spoken
> > > to them that were so specific and timely for their unique
> > > situations. One
> > > LDS woman spoke in tongues as she was filled with the Holy
> Ghost,
> > > which
> > > was then interpreted to her great joy and weeping. Not all who
> > > sought
> > > healings were healed on the spot, but were promised they could
> be
> > > healed.
> > >
> > > This was around the 18th Ezekiel Conference to be held, and the
> > > first
> > > time they had this kind of open manifestation of such miracles
> in
> > > their
> > > midst. The conferences commenced about three years ago because
> of
> > > many
> > > people being touched by an account of a ten-year-old girl who
> died
> >
> > > from a
> > > diabetic coma and returned from death without the veil, who
> > > apparently
> > > has continued to have near daily encounters with Jesus on a
> level
> > of
> > > familiarity surpassing what most people have in a best friend or
>
> > > parent.
> > > The purpose of the ongoing conferences is to teach about the
> gifts
> >
> > > of the
> > > spirit and foster their identification and development in the
> > lives
> > > of
> > > people for the blessing of mankind.
> > >
> > >
> > > click for high-res
> > > John Bayley
> > >
> > >
> > > John Bayley addressing
> > > the Ezekiel conference.
> > >
> > >
> > > John Bayley with Sterling
> > > Allan, who met him in 2002
> > > when John was ministering
> > > in Manti Utah.
> > >
> > >
> > > click for high-res
> > > John Bayley issues the
> > > word of the Lord given
> > > him the morning of the
> > > Conference.
> > >
> > >
> > > John Bayley with Gina
> > > Bailey, LDS instructor and
> > > inspirational speaker
> > > and singer.
> > >
> > >
> > > This was the first conference that Ridenhour attended, having
> been
> > > introduced to conference founder and director, Doug Mendenhall
> by
> > > John
> > > Bayley. Doug met John in December 2003. He was in Independence
> > doing
> > > a
> > > conference, in which three speakers had canceled. Not knowing
> what
> >
> > > to
> > > do, he said "the Lord said to go anyway and he would provide."
> > Once
> > > there, he saw John Bayley, didn't know him, and said "the Spirit
>
> > > told me
> > > to go ask him to speak." He did, and Bayley gladly obliged.
> > >
> > > Bayley has been a regular speaker since that time, beloved by
> > those
> > > who
> > > attend, who find great humor in the fact that he is a black man
> > with
> > > beaded hair. "He's like Samuel the Lamanite of Book of Mormon
> > > times,"
> > > said one conference goer, inasmuch as he is non LDS coming among
>
> > > them to
> > > stir them up to repentance and remembrance of their birthright,
> to
> >
> > > be
> > > better LDS than they have been. "Wake the sleeping giant" was
> the
> > > message
> > > of both Bayley and Ridenhour.
> > >
> > > Ridenhour and Bayley spurred the conference attendees to awaken
> > > their
> > > fellow Mormons to return to the glory days of the prophet Joseph
>
> > > Smith in
> > > which the gifts of the spirit were a vital part of their daily
> > > lives,
> > > sometimes continuing all day and into the night in great
> > outpourings
> > > in
> > > their midst.
> > >
> > > Bayley said he was given a word of the Lord regarding the Mormon
>
> > > church
> > > the second morning of the two-day conference. He said that the
> > Lord
> > > was
> > > not pleased that so many had been excommunicated by the
> shepherds
> > > who
> > > were supposed to be tending the flock. He said that the Lord
> will
> > be
> > > very displeased when he returns if he finds any outside the fold
>
> > who
> > > are
> > > supposed to be in, and that those responsible for their removal
> > will
> > > themselves be removed if this is not remedied.
> > >
> > > The word he gave promised that if the church would restore those
>
> > who
> > > had
> > > been removed, they would become three times more powerful and
> grow
> >
> > > three
> > > times as large. Bayley himself has been disciplined by his
> > Christian
> > > brothers, being removed from a position of high leadership
> because
> >
> > > of
> > > being a "Mormon lover."
> > >
> > > Ridenhour said that the "two sticks" prophecy in Ezekiel is not
> > just
> > > about the Bible and the Book of Mormon becoming one in the hand,
>
> > but
> > > that
> > > the people of the Bible and the people of the Book of Mormon
> will
> > > become
> > > one as well.
> > >
> > > "In Old Testament times, God manifest his glory in the cloud,
> but
> > > not his
> > > person. In New Testament times, God manifest his person but not
> > his
> > > glory. In our day, he is going to manifest both his glory and
> his
> > > person."
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
> > you
> > > may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> > > http://www.InnGlory.org
> > >
> > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an
> > to
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
>
> > > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> >
> > ----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
> you
> > may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> > http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email
> to
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> > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
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> >
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>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
> may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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