On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:58:16 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:03:34 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Lost to the group we call the "apostles?" Lost to a life of recovery and blessing? Lost to a continued forgiveness of the one he (Judas) betrayed? Lost to the final blessing of seeing that his betrayal actually made the resurrection possible? Or lost in hell? But Judy Taylor knows the answer to this line of questioning in spite of the fact that we are told that it is impossible for us to judge someone into eternal destiny. Pity, pity pity.
jt: Lost means lost JD; the rest is pointless speculation because in that day Judas is one who will not be found in Christ.. my faith does not extend to men's speculations.
"Lost in hell" is speculation, Judy. It just happens to be of the kind that appeals to your nature and world view.
jt: So you reject the reality of their being a heaven to gain and a hell to escape John? No weeping and gnashing of teeth?No rich man and Lazarus? You will have to cut a lot of scripture out of your Bible or else explain it away. How is Judaslost to a life of recovery and blessing or a continued forgiveness - he killed himself, hung himself in the Potter's field andis forever branded - "the son of perdition"
Samson? Only the most stubborn will refuse to admit his suicide. God used Samson's weaknesses to accomplish physical judgment over the Philistines. The reason why folks like you cannot allow for suicide in the case of Samson has everything to do with your works salvationist point of view. His death and acceptance destroys your theory of salvation. The sacrifice only works when you repent, confess, pray and whatever else you might come up with (i.e. "pay restitution"). THE SACRIFICE ONLY WORKS FOR YOU WHEN YOU WORK FOR YOURSELF.
jt: My understanding about the death of Samson has to do with my knowledge of God JD and has nothing to do with what you call "works".In fact, you are a works salvationist, plain and simple. Suicide is one of your "unforgivable sins" because the blood of your lamb of God did not secure your salvation; it only provided for it. And because you die in suicide without confessing, you are screwed. THAT is your "gospel of hope." There is no practical difference between your gospel and the life lived under the old law of animal sacrifice except that "repentance and confession" have taken the place of the altar and memorization of the law is the the internalization of the law per Jere 31:34 and not the rule of the Spirit.jt: What in the world are you talking about JD; surely you are off in a CofC rant. What did they do to you to cause everything to be so twisted in your eyesight. IMO you are seduced by a different spirit which is why things are so tangled/twisted.Suicide is murder which breaks God's Law . Apparently you have a God who judges sometimes and winks at other times, how convenient.You haven't been reading your mail. I have a God who has covered ALL my sins, shed His blood once and for all time. He is a God who has promised to "remember my sins no more." I am saved by, in, through, and for the Living Word of God (that would be Christ)jt: And what if your confession above is just that "yours" How does one ignore the truth of God's Word while ATST makingthe claim that they are saved by, in, through, and for it?
Your theology would have us believe that God has given us all that we might need so that we might "work out our own salvation." You have no message of hope for those who are steeped in sin and weighted down by addiction ---- no hope whatsoever ------------------ and I have asked before. I do know what your answers are to this question of hope offered to a sin sickened world and they are disgraceful.
jt: Disgraceful?? Get a grip JD. My message of hope to them is the same a message of hope I received which is the Cross and the ResurrectionGood try but nowhere close to the peg. You have "received" that which you try to foster here on TT.jt: And what is the "peg?"
of Christ where He defeated the principalities and powers that hold men captive and made an open show of them leading them in His victory parade. His victory becomes ours when we take hold of it by faith - It's our choice but it doesn't come by osmosis and if you as a counselor have no faith in the work of the risen Christ then how can you impart it to those who sit under your counsel?Write this down, Judy. The Smithmeister is a pastoral counselor and, as such, he ministers hope and security to the lives of those who consider themselves outside the grace and family of God. [In reality, it is the avocation of pastor as opposed to therapist.] They are not, of course.jt: I don't know what all that means to you JD but it sounds as though you don't have any answers for those who aresinking in the miry clay other than to present them with your grand and universalist view of the incarnation/resurrection.What do you present that will help them, deliver them, and restore them right now today?As children of the Family of God, they do have accountability issues, but it is Christ's victory that I proclaim -- and even you cannot deny this.Yeah I noticed, only you proclaim things that are irrelevant. The old Adamic flesh nature was judged at the cross and is not in Him - and neither is all creation; so you have another gospel JDYou have trouble putting it into words, but the truth of the matter is this: Judy Taylor believes that John Smithson takes the victory of Christ too far. I am not the one who denies His victory. That is a silly insult to what I consider to be the truth.jt: What you consider to be the truth does not line up with the Word of God JD. The process of regeneration takes the rebirth of the human spirit along with a lifetime committment to "walk after the spirit" because "If any man be in Christ he is a new creation" old things have passed away. Behold all things have become new. Your gospel - void of repentance and confession is powerless and you can't share what you don't have.
