Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 2:39
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13
fg. - Perhaps it's focus is WHO not so much WHAT
Could it be that Terry and Caroline are
talking about different things, both of which are true?
Caroline, I think I understand what you
mean, that if we are continually forcing ourselves on an issue and it
feels like a burden and there is no joy in doing it, or if we just can't
come to the point of "obedience", there is probably something underlying
that needs to be resolved. Or else we are placing undue demands on
ourselves that are really not from God and have nothing to do with
obedience (maybe they're from legalistic friends! :-) ). Or we are
not respecting the reality of the journey and are trying to shortcut by
leaping ahead to stuff we are not yet mature enough for. Or we're living
out of our own strength. Just gritting our teeth and putting our nose to
the grindstone won't help. Am I understanding that right? If so, I
agree.
But I wonder if Terry may be talking about
something different and more healthy. I think it's normal for there
to be some struggle to obey a lot of the time, a kind of struggle
that is completely transparent, has nothing to do with demons
or confusion and just comes from the Old
Man stirring again (as referenced in a recent thread
involving JD and David, in which they agreed). We may be fully correct
about the rut we have been given our way out of, but that
don't make it easy to get out. Some of the best joy we
experience comes from having gone through that struggle
successfully. In finally submitting to the
Spirit we are enabled to recognize the grace and strength
of Christ in us to carry out what all our own striving
cannot accomplish. I am willing to consider "just do it"
as shorthand for that.
We have to remember that we are part
of the creation; we aren't resurrected yet, and there isn't a part
of us that is extricable from our body. He remembers we are dust, and so
should we. Some groaning and longing mixed with the joy and
peace is unavoidable. But you have often reminded
us, Caroline, that if we muck it up again (and again), this
doesn't affect the relation in which we stand to God and we don't have
to wonder if we have slipped a notch with him or been
taken off the honour roll. That's the beauty. (With people, it's
another thing!)
Debbie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005
11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] John
16:13 fg. - Perhaps it's focus is WHO not so much WHAT
Terry:
Jesus asked, "Why do you call me Lord, and do not do as I tell
you?"
We obey because He is Lord and we are not. Simple as
that. Though love is the ideal motive, it does not matter
whether you feel like doing it out of love, or fear, or do not feel
like doing it at all. He is not wringing His hands hoping we
will someday obey. He demands obedience, because He deserves
obedience. HE IS LORD!
Caroline:
Nothing is simple when it comes to humans and saying it is sweeps
a lot of things under the carpet. If someone loves Jesus and
wants to do His will but can't it could be
a) unresolved sin issues that needs to be confessed. This may
even be generational or spousal sins
b) spiritual warfare that needs to be confronted.
c) misunderstanding of what Jesus really wants and the Spirit is
saying stop!
d) something else needs to be done first
e) woundedness that needs to be healed first. What if someone
cheated us financially and we haven't forgiven them? Or what if we
grew up poorer than our neighbours? In some people, an inability to
tithe may have its roots in that unforgiveness or inability to trust
God's care.
I'm sure others can think of blocks to obedience. "Just do it" is
an awful yoke to place on people's neck. Jesus said his yoke is easy
and his burden light and that we're to learn from him and he will give
us rest. If the yoke is hard and the burden is heavy, we're under the
wrong master or we haven't heard his voice instructing us on how to
obey. It would also mean giving up on a lot of joy and peace.
