Jd in bold print
JD writes:
Paul tells us that we are "justified" by faith apart from obedience to [moral and ceremonial] law. That occurs because of the faith of Christ -- God seeing that and accepting it as our righteousness. This blessing occurs "in Christ" via the Incarnation which presented all of mankind reconciled to God.
The above is "another gospel" and Paul does not tell us any of it JD. This revelation was received and is taught by certain theologians that you admire. Paul did not contradict any other scripture. Of course it is "Pauline." This revelation was received and taught by Paul. I have accepted this teaching of Paul's years before I ever read of Barth, Kruger, Miller or JTaylor. And, of course he did not contradict other scripture -- how do we know? Because he wrote half of them !!
So when are you going to learn that there is nothing wrong with God's eyesight. When he looks at you he sees you not Christ and He has given to every man the measure of faith. Christ's work on the cross is finished; a done deal - So if in fact our righteousness is the faith of Christ then sin would not affect it because "it is finished" right? You have no idea just how dead-on your last sentence, here, really is. You see it as an obstacle when, in fact, it IS the gospel. Lets look at Romans 4:5
"But, to the one not working but believeing on the one justifying the ungodly is accounted the faith of him into (eis) righteousness." That is Comfort and Brown's literal translation. Take your pick of the several inter-linears out there. And I go to an interlinear because most of the translations completely miss the point. In the above -- and all interlinears agree on this, the "faith of him" is clearly a reference to Christ.
However, we see in 1 John 1:9 (post Calvary) "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" So apparently sin causes us to go from "righteous" to "unrighteous" and needs to be confessed and dealt with. Since scripture teaches that Christ's sacrifice is a one time sacrifice that has secured our forgiveness, since only sacrifice can forgive sin - it is important to accept that "confession" is a work of faith and love -- not a substitue for The Sacrifice that has once and for time secured our forgiveness. The verse you quote actually teaches that in our continual confessing, He "keeps on cleansing us from all unrighteousness." In this passage, we are "righteous" because of His activity and not because of ours. We are never "righteous" because of our activity, whether with the Spirit's aid or not and, for that reason, we continually need the perpetual cleansing of Christ. His cleansing is "continual" because His single sacrifice, delivered once and for time, has secured our forgiveness, our cleansing. What has saved us AT THE POINT OF FAITH is the very thing that keeps on saving us. So when you combine your righteousness with that of Christ you make Him unrighteous which also violates scripture because there is not and never was any unrighteousness in Him and He is not responsible for your choices..So, are you saying that my unrightousness has a more profound effect on the order of things than His, the Almighty God, The Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, the Wonderful Comforter ------------ than His rightousness on me !!!!!!!!!!!!! That is your argument ?????????? That I bring Him down? I am telling you, Judy Taylor, that His rightousness builds me up!!! Repent immediately and then, proceed.
Secondly all mankind are not "born of the Spirit" and reconciled to God at the incarnation because the world is not able unable to receive the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17). Rather He is sent to convict them of sin, righteousness (vs their unrighteousness) and the judgment to come (John 16:8).You confuse terms, Judy. Colosians 1:17-22 clearly teaches that all things have been reconciled in Him, in the body of His flesh at [His] death. What don't you understand when the man speaks of "all things, in earth and in the heavens, things visible and things invisible?" This statement is so comprehensive that it earns the right to be considered a "context defining statement," if you will.
James tells us that we are "justified by works and not by faith alone."
James wrote that faith without corresponding actions is dead being alone.And I certainly do not deny this. But he is not saying that we are lost before we "work." Work is a sign that our faith is alive as we cherish the connection we have with His faith, His righteousness, His continuing cleansing.
The legalist or "works salvationists" see this as a statement implying specific and prescribed works -- hear, believe, confess, repent, be baptized.
The above is written by a "true legalist" Now, here is a good argument. You have NEVER used this argument prior to Miller's "everybody is a legalist" drival ---------- it has nothing to do what I am saying and because of that, you have not given a rebuttal to my statement above. I do not object to your label of me ------- you guys love labels but hate them when someone labels you -- so the label is fine BUT IT DOES NOT ANSWER MY ARGUMENT.
The student of James, the letter, sees this as visiting the fatherless, the widows, honoring the poor ------ that sort of thing (in fact, James does not even allude to the traditional legalese of modern Christianity.)
James calls the above "true religion" - visiting and helping the poor are some of the the fruit of a righteous life. Alright. But are you saying that these are not the "works" he has in mind in the next chapter (chapter two)?
Such works, James tells the student, is evidence of a personal faith. One is "required" (the faith of Christ counted as our righteousness) and the other is an _expression_ of our justification and is viewed by James as an action that continues our justification. We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.
Theological legalism John, the above is not evidence of anyone's heart attitude because unbelievers can do good works from a sense of guilt and they often do. Motivation is everything. man looks at "outward appearance" Judy, you just float around with your theology, don't you. You are no "leagalist," You are a floater !! And I agree with everything you have said in the immediate above. Works ultimately are not the important ----------------- I am sorry, I am laughing too hard to finish this !!!!!!!!!!!!! In order to keep on talking, you have completely changed positions at this point in the discussion !!!!!!!!!!!! You are great !!!!!!!!
If we have been "born again" or born of the Spirit we have been saved (John 3:3); Well, of course. the work of sanctification in our lives is "being saved" and when we are accepted at the Judgment Seat of Christ (read sheep and goats) we "will be saved" Certainly. What do you think I believe? But this does not mean that we are NOT JUSTIFIED BEFORE judgment day !!!! In the above, you speak of "being saved," and "will be saved," but you have left off the fact that we "have been saved." Why?
IF we have not wrested the scriptures to our own destruction..........Amen.
judyt
