Of course I can JD but this principle is understood in the light of all other principles and there are some ppl
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:37:32 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You can't afford to allow Romans 14:4 to a principle of truth, so you limit it's usefulness to the meants only question and continue uneffected --------- and you ask me why I say you are stubborn and rebellious (and saved)? !!!
who profess to follow the Lord who will not be standing in that day - Jesus calls them "you who practice
lawlessness/iniquity" and these ones will be set aside as goats.The issue in Romans 14 can be expressed in a number of ways, I suppose. For the sake of this conversation, I will put it this way: in this section of the Roman letter, Paul is discussing the relationship of one believer to another in view of doctrinal and heart felt differences. The critical issues in the text were holy days and the eating of meats. These were as important of issues as any teachings that divide Christianity today. The fact that "clean verse unclean" is dealt with in several writings in the NT scriptures is proof if this. The holy day issue is, or could be, the tip of the Jewish-Christian iceberg. In Galatians, Paul makes clear the teaching on holy days -- there are none. The eating of meats? No reason to NOT eat except, of course, the conscience of some believers.....................while eating in their presence, of course. Two questions are answered in this text: (1) Shall we divide from other disciples who honestly believe a different teaching, especially when it is wrong? And, (2) How does God look upon the faith of those who are wrong in their doctrine? The answer to the first is Romans 14:4and it's larger context. The "principle" that you limit is the one which states that we are individually the servants of God and not others within the Assembly. He is our Master, individually, and will cause us to stand when, in fact, we deserve to fall on our face because of what we mistakenly believe. How and why you want to limit this reality is beyond me. I am the one who called this a principle. But it is much more than that - it is a statement of a very special relationship each of us have with the Master, our Master, and the rich benefit we receive from this relationship -------------- a free "pick-me-up off the floor of self effort." Romans 14:4, Judy, is the only reason why I do not "condemn you to hell because of your false doctrine." I accept you as a dear sister on Christ because of 14:4.
The answer to the 2nd question -- how does God look upon the faith of the wrong brother --- is found in the closing verses of this chapter 14. He sees a misinformed yet vital faith that should never be compromised but can be wrong !!! There is a difference, you know.
This in not a one verse teaching ---------- rather, Paul dedicates an entire section of the letter to this problem. It is Paul's solution to the disunity Christ prayed against in John 17.
In Romans 14, the meats issue and the holy day issue were the specifics.14:4 IS THE ABIDING PRINCIPLE that allows me to fellowship those who disagree with me, as a matter of The Faith. That is what it does and there is no denying it. Jd
I'm able to befriend those who disagree with me also JD I am not talking about befriending someone I consider an enemy, Judy -- but at least I know where you are coming from. You "have never excluded me as a brother" but continue to "befriend me as an enemy." Is that what I am to conclude? But back to the my point --- I am speaking of continued fellowship of brothers and sisters who disagree doctrinally with me. but it is not because of Romans 14:4; I do it because we are to love our enemies as well as our friends, walking in love is obeying the Royal Law.
By the way ------------- I am not up at this time in the morning, never having gone to bed this evening, because I want to get the truth out there in email land -------- I took my wife out for dinner ( I like to give her a break from washing, cooking and cleaning once in a while) and a Mexican pepper kind of kicked me in the , the -- ah, GUT !!! I liked the dinner, but the fourth time around, well it gets old. JD
Glad to see you are good to your wife JD; is it your wife who likes the Mexican food? I have to be good to her or she will stop cleaning, cooking and doing the laundry. Small price to pay for a life of servitude. But, enough about me -- what do you think about me? Oh, I forgot; we are united under the Royal Law. whew!!! jt
In a message dated 4/10/2005 2:37:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So please tell me how you figure I am the one who is stubborn and rebellious?? Yes the Lord is able to strengthen the weak in faith who are fearful of eating certain foods (but who love the truth and want to obey Him), God's strength is made perfect in weakness and He can cause these ones to stand but He will not make a silk purse out of a sows ear any more than you can make a generic doctrine out of Romans 14:4.
