Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen

[Debbie Sawczak]

Nothing categorical can be said about education per se. There are good educations and bad ones, ones that open the mind and help the learner make connections, and ones that close the mind and are mere information. Neither needs to be formal, but a few weeks of the first kind is gold while years of the second kind are garbage.   Debbie   ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroline Wong To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen The barrier to understanding is not education but whether the person is informed by the Holy Spirit or not while reading. Education, experience, intelligence etc. increases understanding as the Holy Spirit can reveal more. The more a person has, more will be given. We all start with milk but we hopefully don't stay there or churn our milk into cheese and pretend we're eating meat.   All our great theologians were/are extremely intelligent: Luther, Calvin, Packer, Stott, Grudem. Intelligence and wisdom are 2 different things but a Christian can ask for wisdom and he can be gifted with wisdom by the Spirit. An intelligent Christian with wisdom can be taught and such a person would be used mightily by the Spirit. Paul is an example of such a person.   Love,   Caroline   ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen myth (a good example of a false conclusion in its context = >This is exactly why the learned have no understanding of the spiritual content.   On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:29:14 -0500 "Caroline Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm totally stunned but I fully agree with Kevin here. The bible can only be read with the Spirit. My pastor said the same thing when he wrote about Karl Barth and scripture. I posted it here sometime ago.   All I can add is, come Holy Spirit and illumine our conversations here.   Love,   Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen Knowing the Language, the customs, the greek, the hebrew and knowing the stories & words in the scriptures without having the Holy Ghost is like having the table of Contents only, it is seriously lacking. One needs the Enlightenment of God's spirit to understand "spiritual" words  Jesus said "The words I speak unto you they are SPIRIT" This is exactly why the learned have no understanding of the spiritual content. They are spiritually discerned, what can a dead man understand?   Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:41:30 -0400 "Debbie Sawczak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Maybe, then, Judy, we needn't even bother to read the Bible in our own language. We could "read" it in Inuktitut and the Holy Spirit could just siphon the content into our brains without ANY of the normal means of linguistic processing.   Debbie, please tell me you are being silly rather than serious here...   The point being (as laid out in an earlier post) that making use of context is something we all do every day in understanding  anything we hear or read. But in this case, we are so far away from the context (Jesus' hearers weren't) that we have to make a conscious effort to go after it. Of course it will STILL be necessary for the Holy Spirit to enlighten and enliven us, as it was for Jesus' hearers back then; but why would he expect us to deliberately short-circuit the normal process of understanding language?  Debbie   He doesn't expect this from us and this is why He has made His Word available to us in our generation in the English language. However, an English speaking person can read an English Bible and a Greek speaking person can read a Greek Bible with both knowing all about Israel's history and local customs and yet it will still be a closed book without the ministry of the Holy Spirit which is not so with what  we read and what we hear every day on TV and in the newspaper.   It's something to think about... Judyt        From: Judy Taylor   On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:48:33 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you use biblcial, historical and cultural context to help understand the meaning of words? Or do you see that as a devise of the uninspired?   JD   I don't see Jesus leaving any admonition about history, culture, and  Word Studies in order to understand the meaning of His Word.  He sent the Holy Spirit to give us understanding.  I don't know what Kevin's response will be but I see the above qualifiers as an excuse to make the Word of God say what you want it to and conform it to strange and different doctrines rather than receive the "faith once delivered to the saints".  jt In a message dated 4/14/2005 4:36:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does the "context" of your writings demand that we REDFINE your words also?     Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!