John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say onto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Who has eternal life in this verse?
What exactly tells you John 3 WATER=BAPTISM
Do you always insert BAPTISM where it says water??????????
Now don't miss this; NOTICE in verse 6 Jesus says �That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit�
Now don't miss this; NOTICE in verse 6 Jesus says �That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit�
What is He talking about?
Notably he does not say, �That which is born of water and the Spirit.� OR "that which is born of BAPTISM"
So he is talking of two Births here:
BORN of FLESH & BORN of SPIRIT!
So he is talking of two Births here:
BORN of FLESH & BORN of SPIRIT!
John 3 shows that there must be TWO births (Born again - second birth) one physical "born of flesh" (vs 6) as when in the "Mothers Womb" the "water" brakes and one spiritual birth "born of spirit" (vs 6).
in verse 12 we have the contrast again of "earthly things"(physical) and "heavenly things"(spiritual)
If it is still not clear see verse 15 which tells us who is saved "whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have eternal life."
in verse 12 we have the contrast again of "earthly things"(physical) and "heavenly things"(spiritual)
If it is still not clear see verse 15 which tells us who is saved "whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Jesus was baptised as a requirement to enter into his High priestly mission, not to wash away sin. He had no sin.
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BLAINE: I wrote the below some time ago--have not as yet seen an answer--maybe I missed something?
Hey
Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question
directly without trying to get the issue sidetracked, OK? (HINT: to
fulfill ALL righteousness)
Receiving an assurance of her salvation did not mean the woman in question did not need baptism, as baptism was obviously an ordinance the Lord required of all of his disciples. He said so Himself!!!! Much is not included in the Bible, so we don't have a record of this woman's actual baptism, nor the baptisms of many other disciples. Yet reason tells us that if baptism was needed by the Lord of Heaven "to fulfill all righteousness," it was needed by this woman and ALL others, as well. I assure you, Kevin, this woman and all other disciples who were physically able to do so were baptized. See some (but not all) references to the need for baptism below:
John 3:5: "Except a man be born of the water, . . . "
John 3:22: "After these things came Jesus and His disciples into the land of Judea; and there He tarried with them AND BAPTIZED."
Mark 16:15-16: "And He (Jesus) said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED; BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED.
ETC., ETC., ETC.,
BLAINE says "I think the word was the result of a mistranslation"
Why is it that when a TT'er can't answer it is Always a problem with the Bible???
WHOA hold on before you go all over looking for loopholes in Paradise!
WHAT OF THESE???????????????????????????????
EXAMPLES of those that were saved independent of baptism
Skip the 3 card monty stuff, answer please.
Luke 7:37-50 "Wherefore I say unto thee, Her SINS, which are many, are FORGIVEN; for she loved much: but to whom little is FORGIVEN, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy SINS are FORGIVEN. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy FAITH hath SAVED thee; go in peace."
JUST IN CASE U MISSED IT:
Jesus plainly stated that the women was immediately forgiven and was now SAVED by faith. She knelt at the feet of Jesus, trusted Him, and went away a saved woman. She was saved without baptism.
Luke 18:35-43 healing/conversion of a blind man. VS 42 "And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath SAVED thee."
The publican, Luke 18:13, 14 Standing there in the Temple, he prayed saying: "God be merciful to me a sinner," Jesus says "I tell you, this man went down to his house JUSTIFIED!"
The thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43 Was not baptised. One was saved that we might have hope One was LOST that we might not presume.
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
BLAINE: Good point. I read something on that the other day--it has to do with the word "paradise." I will have to find out where I was reading that, but I think the word was the result of a mistranslation, and simply meant "the world of spirits." I would not, however, pretend to judge the thief and contest that he ended up in any place other than a good one, as I believe God is just and takes many things into consideration. For example, what about little children who die without baptism, as millions of third world children do? And do we consign all Muslims to hell? Hardly. God is just, as well as merciful, and only He can make judgements regards these cases that fall outside the Christian view. As a Mormon Christian, I believe God has told us some things that apply to us, but many of his judgements he reserves to Himself. Judge not (rashly), that ye be not judged (rashly), in other words; or, "Judgement is mine," saith the Lord.
--
"ShieldsFamily" wrote:
BTW, Blaine, maybe you covered this already, but how did the guy on the
cross next to Jesus go to Paradise if he wasn't baptized? Izzy
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] baptism
Blaine, FYI you are not one who is in a position to determine who is/isn't a
Christian, since you aren't one. Therefore, I, being a Christian, can assure
you that Kevin is one. Izzy
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] baptism
BLAINE: As I have said many times before, Kevin has his own religion, which
is not Christian. He selects obscure passages that justify his vanity. Hey
Kevin, why did Jesus insist on being baptized? Answer that question
directly without trying to get the issue sidetracked, OK? (HINT: to
fulfill ALL righteouness)
Faith - without works
BLAINE: Does this mean you don't like to work for a living, Kevin? (:
Dave Hansen wrote:
DAVEH: I concur, Kevin. Faith is certainly a key element of salvation, but
I do not think it is the only element necessary for salvation. How do you
see it, Kevin....do you believe faith is the only necessary element of
salvation?
DAVEH: Hey Kevin........Do you have a problem with me using 1Cor 15:29 in
support of other Biblical passages that become cumulative evidence that the
Primitive Christians believed a water baptism was necessary for salvation?
It does lead one to that logical conclusion, does it not?
Christians of all ages accept the clear teaching that salvation is by Faith
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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