Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1

[Caroline Wong]

Okay, you got me there, Terry. That should be Romans 11:25-27. But here is the rest of the passage in KJV (verses 28 to 32) "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."   Now, what you wrote is valid and solid thinking and a lot of people believe that. But a lot of people considered the rest of the passage and felt that Israel, as a chosen people, have no choice but be saved and this is God's sovereign choice. It is irresistible grace and unconditional election. (Part of Calvin's theology)   So on one hand: possible scenario that all Jews are born destined for hell from 33 AD until a day in the future when the full number of Gentiles come in and then Jesus is revealed to them as their Messiah. On another hand, possible scenario that they are saved no matter what because it pleases God to do so. If someone can answer "why would God set it up this way?" for either scenario, then a lot of answers to age old questions (from why the tree of knowledge in the garden to why do we suffer to why are some born handicapped or with cancer) fall into place. Many theologians have attempted to formulate a theodicy that matches what they believe about God and the bible. The entire branch is called theodicy and it's not a simple formulation.   Love,   Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Rikk Watts on Genesis 1 Caroline Wong wrote: Romans 11:25-57 KJV "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.   ================================================================================ If you have a Romans 11:57, you are not using the KJV that I know.  But anyhow, this verse does not grandfather in past non believers.  It applies only to those jews alive pre/mid/post trib (Take your pick ) who will all see the truth and be drawn to Christ by the mercy of God after all the gentiles come in that are coming in.  Those that are losr prior to that time stay lost, so all Israel will not be gathered around the throne; just those alive at the time God has chosen. Terry