Do you believe that Mary, was overshadowed by the holy spirit and conceived miraculously, remaining a virgin, or do you believe that she had physical sex with someone for her to be able to conceive? if so, with whom did she have sex?
Is the godhead you mention the Trinity, or three separate gods? Isn't that called polythesim?
Perry
From: Bothoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: [Fwd: What I believe...............and what I do not believe]]
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
Terry: I believe that I am not a Baptist, or a Catholic., or even a protestant. I do not claim to be an Armenian or a Calvinist or any other thing except a follower of my Lord Jesus Christ
Raymond: I�m formerly a Southern Baptist. I�m a convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Terry: If you must put me in a category, refer to me as a narrow minded fundamentalist.
Raymond: I�m a conservative; what the religionists call a fundamentalist. I�m open to a lot of different thoughts and ideas which I filter through a narrow scope of truth identified by the Scriptures and the Holy Ghost.
Terry: Fundamentals are things that affect our salvation. Things that we must believe. Things that will be believed if one has faith.
Raymond: I think what you are referring to are Truths. Truths are eternal in nature and are understood as Principles of the Gospel
Terry: I believe that all have sinned and therefore all need a Savior.
Raymond: All have sinned and all do need a savior. The Lord Jesus Christ is that Savior.
Terry: I believe that you must turn from your sin in order to be forgiven.
Raymond: The Hebrew word translated as �repent� actually means to �turn� or �have a change of heart.� I believe that a person must turn away from their iniquity and forsake their sin. If they do so and turn in faith to Jesus Christ, He will forgive them.
Terry: I believe in the virgin birth.
Raymond: The literal translation of Isa 7:14 is �young woman� not �virgin.� However, according to Jewish culture a young woman is virtuous, a virgin, pure and undefiled. Mary was a virgin and God the Father blessed her to be the Mother of the Messiah.
Terry: I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God.
Raymond: Jesus is the Christ; the Son of the Living God.
Terry: I believe that the gate is small and the path is narrow. Not everyone goes to Heaven. Not even most people go to Heaven. Very few people go to Heaven. When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, only a few escaped His judgment. When God sent a flood that covered the earth, most people drowned. Only a few escaped His judgment. If those are indicators, and I believe that they are, very few will continue to escape His judgment, because the vast majority think they can get to Heaven on the wide road.
Raymond: Jesus said, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Matt 7:13-14) I believe that few will enter the Celestial Kingdom of Heaven (2Cor 12:2). Most will go to the Terrestrial Kingdom or the Telestial Kingdom. Jesus taught, "In my Father�s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you." (John 14:2a) Or in other words � if there was only one place, He would have told us. Although, some will go to Hell, it is primarily a place prepared for the Devil and his angels. (Matt 25:41)
Terry: I believe that the gate is so narrow that you cannot drive a moving van through it. I think it is so narrow that you cannot squeeze through it with a back pack. I think that the gate is so narrow that you may have to lose everything, leave it all behind, in order to obtain eternal life. I believe that all the stuff left behind includes self.
Raymond: I believe that you interpret this to much in a temporal sense and not enough in a spiritual sense.
Terry: You die to self when you enter the gate.
Raymond: We die to selfishness as we seek to do the will of God and become one with the Father.
Terry: I believe that God gives us a choice as to whether or not we want to be part of the bride of Christ. I do not feel that Christ would force anyone to be His bride any more than I would force my wife to marry me. I wanted her to love me, and Christ wants us to yield to Him out of love, not because we were forced into it before we were born.
Raymond: The Bride that you speak of are the members of the Lord�s Church who enter into covenants with Him and are sealed and faithful. This is their choice according to their love and their free agency.
Terry: I do not believe that God appointed some to be lost and some to be saved before the foundation of the world. If that were so, it would mean that God created a few for salvation and the vast majority of the people to be condemned to Hell without ever having the opportunity to turn from their sins. I know my God better than that.
Raymond: I believe that it is the will of our Heavenly Father that all of His children repent and accept Jesus Christ. He does, however, have foreknowledge of who will do so and who will not. It is our responsibility to reach out to all of our Heavenly Father�s children with the gospel and not wait and think that certain chosen ones will come to us.
Terry: I do not believe that all are born saved and must reject Christ in order to be lost. Luke says that Jesus came "To seek and save the lost". They were lost before He was born of a virgin, before they ever heard His Holy name, before they could possibly reject Him or His message. He came to seek and to save them. All they had to do to be lost was remain as they were.
Raymond: We are all born into a lost and fallen state. Jesus came to save us. First, His atonement covers the original transgression of Adam and Eve. Second, all children below the age of accountability (who do not sin nor need repentance). This includes those who have mental disabilities that prevent them from understanding right from wrong. Third, the rest of us on condition of repentance.
Terry: I believe that once you go through the narrow gate (be born again) that you travel the narrow path. I believe that you grow as you travel. I believe that God, the Holy Spirit comes along side you to guide you. He will lead you if you allow Him to, but He is a gentleman, He will not force you to stay on the path.
Raymond: To be born again or born of God, one must have faith in Jesus Christ, repent of his sins, be baptized by immersion for the remission of sins, receive the Holy Ghost as a constant friend and guide, and live faithfully the teachings of the Savior. I believe that the Holy Ghost will guide us as we live worthy and seek his guidance. God will guide us, lead us, and direct us, but this eternal truth is given that God will force no man to Heaven.
Terry: As you walk with God, you will become more like Him.
Raymond: We call this becoming Christ-like.
Terry: I believe He reveals Himself to others as they are able to comprehend Him.
Raymond: I would say that He reveals Himself to others insomuch as they are able to receive Him. Although, He may reveal Himself to us in various ways, I think He is consistent in how He reveals Himself. I don�t believe that He reveals Himself in contradictory manners which lead to confusion.
Terry: I believe that if He revealed all of Himself to me at once that I would explode.
Raymond: No man can be in the immediate presence of God unless He places some of His glory on him so that he is able to endure. Otherwise, the person would be instantly destroyed.
Terry: I believe that as the Disciples lived and traveled with Jesus, they knew Him a little better every day. I believe that the same thing applies to us as we travel and live with Him.
Raymond: As we live our lives in conformity with the teachings of Christ, we become more like Him.
Terry: I believe that the path is not only narrow, but that Satan has set traps along the length of it. I believe that the farther we travel on the path, the more obvious the traps become and the less likely we are to be caught in them.
Raymond: We will all be tried and tested in this life. We must depend upon the Godhead to help us through and to prevail over the pitfalls set up by the Adversary.
Terry: I believe that when you reach the end of the path, you are saved. The day you die is the day you reach the end of the path.
Raymond: In a sense, when you repent and accept Christ you are saved. Unfortunately, too many people think that it�s completed then. Jesus teaches us that to receive the fulness of His atonement, we must endure to the end. For if we don�t endure to the end we cannot be fully saved. Or in other words, if we don�t endure to the end we cannot receive our exaltation through Christ in the Kingdom of His Father. We are taught in the Scriptures that this is in and through Christ and in no other way.
Terry: In the meantime, I believe you can deny Him and repent, as Peter did, or you can deny Him and be lost, as Judas was.
Raymond: I believe that regarding the denials, that Jesus did not prophesy that Peter would do it; rather I believe that Jesus instructed him to do so. On the other hand, Judas Iscariot allowed Satan to take hold on him � which led to his destruction.
Terry: I believe that most temptation comes from love of the things of this world. If we care nothing for the things of the world, it is much harder for Satan or his angels to tempt us.
Raymond: Perhaps, but I�d be careful about making it too simplistic.
Terry: I believe that God not only expects obedience; I believe that He demands it.
Raymond: I believe that He expects obedience and sacrifice.
Terry: I believe that obedience is a natural result of salvation. I believe that you are saved by faith, but that faith entails much more than intellectual assent that Jesus is the Christ. I believe that faith is turning your life over to Christ, doing what He says to do, living as He says to live, denying self.
Raymond: I believe in Eph 2:8-10. To truly follow Jesus, we must follow His examples. We must set aside our own will in favor of the Father�s will.
Terry: I believe that the ones who are saved by faith are the ones who do His will. Talk is cheap. I believe that when the Lord said,"Repent and be baptized", that he meant for us to repent and be baptized.
Raymond: Your right. I don�t believe that the commandments should be understood as �Thou shalt not except for...� or �Thou shalt not unless...� but rather, �Thou shalt not nor anything like unto it.� When the Lord says DO or DO NOT � We must follow.
Terry: I do not feel that baptism saves. It follows salvation. Yet I do not believe that those who refuse to be baptized are saved, as they are ignoring a direct command of God and that is deliberate sin.
Raymond: I believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. Otherwise, why would we be told, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." (Mark 16:16a)
Terry: There was a time when Jesus offered salvation to "whosoever will", but there was also a time when He stamped the dust off His feet and moved on. I believe that there is a time when the Holy Spirit stops striving to win a lost person to Christ, and gives that person over to his or her evil desires, never to trouble their conscience again.
Raymond: As a person moves further and further from God, they move further and further out of His reach. This can happen to a point that whereas God may have at one time been able to reached a person with a �still small voice,� and later could not reach him with a roaring voice or even with an earthquake.
Terry: I believe that the Bible says what it means and means what it says. I believe that if what I read is understandable as read, there is no point in looking for hidden meaning.
Raymond: Often the Scriptures are understood on more than one level. Remember � the mind of God is greater than the mind of man. To fully understand the Scriptures, you need the guidance of the Holy Ghost.
Terry: I know that I am a Gentile and that none of the Mosaic law was written for me. At the same time, I know that the two laws that Jesus gave as part of the new covenant contain all the law in the old covenant with the exception of the ceremonial and sacrificial laws. Put another way, I know that I am not to lie, or steal, or murder, or hate or covet or commit adultery, but I am able to eat whatever I choose to eat, or worship where I want to worship.
Raymond: I�m partly of the House of Israel and partly Gentile. The Mosaic Law was given as a �schoolmaster� to bring us unto Christ. Jesus is the one who gave the commandments to Moses. Being under the New Covenant doesn�t negate the teaching of the Old Testament. But, through the atonement, the Lord took away the animal sacrifices required by the Law.
Terry: I do not need a priest because I am a priest.
Raymond: "And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron." (Heb 5:4)
Terry: I do not need a sacrifice because Jesus was the perfect sacrifice.
Raymond: He is the Great Sacrifice which is able to redeem all, except the children of Perdition.
Terry: I believe that I am to obey those in authority over me as long as they do not demand that I sin.
Raymond: We must obey those appoint over us in righteousness.
Terry: I believe that when I do a job for another person, that I must do it as though I am doing it for my Lord Jesus. I believe that I must turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, and give the shirt off my back.
Raymond: Charity is the highest love and is the pure love of Christ.
Terry: I believe that I must consider others to be more important than I am or my humility is false.
Raymond: I�m haven�t, at least not yet, come to the same conclusion. All are important and all have worth. But, what if you falsely exalt them and give them undue veneration?
Terry: I believe that if a sinner was important enough for Jesus to die for, then that sinner is important enough for me to love and care for.
Raymond: Amen, and consider this � If you were the only person on the planet that needed redemption, He would have suffered in Gethsemene and on the cross just for you. If His love is that great just for you, then think of how marvelously great it is for all of us.
Terry: Those are the things that swirl through my mind. That is what I believe. Terry
Raymond: Thanks for sharing. Notice that this time I chose to write more than �I agree,� so that you could see my thinking on each matter. I think on many things we are either in full agreement or in some agreement. It looks like we are finding some common ground.
---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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