Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism

[Judy Taylor]

Jonathan does not follow God's Word Caroline, he is a follower of "Orthodoxy" which during the days of Christ's earthly ministry would have been the Scribes & Pharisees - or as Jesus put it, the blind leading the blind.  Now back then Jesus told his disciples to "let them be" but Athanasuis and his cronies in the 4th Century believed they had found a superior way to deal with those they labelled hereticks such as Arius. So their peculiar doctrine and that of Church councils that followed became "Orthodoxy" - which BTW has nothing whatever to do with "new wineskins"  Jesus baptises with the Holy Spirit and all error has at it's root the other spirit.  jt   On Fri, 13 May 2005 22:49:17 -0500 "Caroline Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jonathan does not disagree with God's word and he is well versed in what God said in the bible. As JD found out, new wine is poured into new wineskins. Very early in my TT days, my pastor said that I can't change another person's beliefs without giving them something else to believe in. I will add that unless God changed a person, made him into new wineskin, new beliefs will cause him to burst. It is self preservation to reject new wine until that transformation happens.   I'm referring to us all - by whatever label that's been applied to us - saint, sinner, Christian, anti-whatever, liberal, fundy. godly, godless   By the way, this is the label that we (everyone of us here) give ourselves: true Christ followers.   Love,   Caroline ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Maybe if you read the bible, instead of fantasy books, you would have a understanding of what God's word has to say on the subject.   Why is it that every time one of you Liberals disagrees with God's word of course it is a incorrect reading? Who made you chief editor of God's word? Maybe it is God who has Hardened you Bible Correctors Hearts, as his judgement of your rebellious spirit. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Izzy, have you considered that your reading of the Lord hardening Pharoah's heart may not be the correct reading?  Would you consider that some may define that _expression_ differently than you?  Consider that Raymond may be correctly assessing the heart of God (one who softens instead of hardens) and then approaching the passage in Exodus.  The eyeglasses one wears always colour our perceptions.  Our view of God colours how we read Scripture.  If we view God as One who hardens hearts we will then look at this text as justifying what we already believe.  If we view God as being One who is love (in His very core of being) we will delve in and wrestle with the text (note that the text also says that Pharoah hardened his own heart etc.) instead of approaching it with a tentative surface meaning.  We all become like the God we adore.  Those that adore a hard, vengeful, angry God tend to be hard, vengeful and angry right here on TT.   A new approach to people's posts on TT would be beneficial.  Before we rush to defend our own opinions with our prooftexts perhaps wrestling with why a person holds a certain belief would be in order.  Would it have hurt to see that you may have agreed with Raymond when he says that God softens hearts?  Has God ever softened yours?  Could you have used that to continue (rather than end) the dialogue?  Rather than 10 vacuous posts a day how about just one well-thought, well constructed, and well meaning post?   Jonathan Truthtalk Alumnis ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: May 13, 2005 17:24 Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism Raymond, Have you not read the book of Exodus, or do you just disagree with it when it says the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart? Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bothoms Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:28 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] baptism   David:  Why would such be bad?  Have you not read how the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart?  Don't you think Jesus himself hardened the hearts of the scholars (both Sadducees and Pharisees) of his day?  Was that bad?   Raymond:  I respectfully disagree.  The Lord does not hardened hearts; He softens them. Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!