Romans 8:4 is not talking about a righteousness that comes from
obeying the Law, whether with the Spirit or otherwise. Rather, it is
talking about a righteousness that is attributed to us because of the events of the Incarnation and the
cross.
RED FLAG!!
Speaking of red flags -- what about
establishing your doctrine about the Levitical Law with absolutely nothing
but your imagination -- not that imagination is
bad ??
jt: Exactly what is this "imaginative" doctrine
about the Levitical Law that you refer to JD? Romans 8:4-8 says
nothing about any "incarnation" it reads: "That the righteousness of
the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the
flesh, but
after the Spirit.
Whoa there Neilly !!! verse 4
actually reads ?that the righteous requirements of The Law ??
and what are those requirements? Well, in a practical sense,
these retirements all have to do with Christ and His sacrifice. (see
v 3)
jt: Vs.3 does not refer to Calvary where Christ
was made an eternal Sacrifice for sin. He fulfilled the Law in his daily
life by walking in love and obedience first toward God and then toward
others and this is the example that He left for us to follow (1 Peter
2:24). See how twisted your "incarnational" doctrine is JD? If
Romans 8:4 referred to Calvary then the righteousness of the law would
never ever be fulfilled in us or anyone else because He is the
only one who qualified for that ministry. No, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who
walk after the spirit and who do not fulfill the lust of the
flesh.
So Christ performed so that the righteous
requirements of the Law (things we could not or did not do) might
fulfilled in us. This has nothing to do with being righteous
by right of our own doing -- it was Christ on the cross that
made us righteous !!! Walk in the flesh
(verse) is given definition in verse 54, Judy. Who are those
who walk in the flesh? Those who do the deeds of the
flesh? Nope. It is those who set their MINDS ON THE
FLESH.
jt: We may not have been able to do them before
the cross because of the weakness of the fallen flesh nature but we can do
them now because we have received "dunamis" or power from on high.
The ones who Christ made righteous are those who "DO" righteousness (1
John 3:7) not those who have conventions and talk about the "incarnation"
- The flesh is not a mindset only JD, the flesh has deeds also and they are listed in Galatians
5:19; have you not heard the following saying. Sow a thought, reap an act, Sow
an act, reap a habit, Sow a habit, reap a
lifestyle?
Who are those who are of the Spirit? Those, in this context,
who do spiritual THINGS? No again. It is those who set
their minds on the Spirit. Romans 12, therefore, speaks of the
renewing of our minds -- precisely because of this (new)
definition. For they that are after the flesh do mind the
things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the
Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded
is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it
is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that
are in the flesh
can not please God"
jt: Yes and.....
Well, a hearty
AMEN to this !! Paul continues his theme and purpose in this
8th chapter. Continuing to speak of what we think rather than
how we act.
jt: Evil thoughts lead to evil actions and
those who live in Galatians 5:19 DO NOT inherit the Kingdom of God no
matter what doctrine they are holding in their right
hand...
Remember, in 7:25, he just got through saying that we do not
ACT so great??? with the FLESH we serve the law of sin and
death. Where is the hope? It is in the
definition !!! there are two levels of carna l
involvement: one is that which has to do with activity and the other is
that which has to do with the mind. In Romans 1:24, they were
given over (by God) to the lusts of their??????? flesh? No ?
to the lusts of their heart (an I see heart and mind as the same
thing
in scripture). Disobedience to parents is on this
list of those given over to the lusts of their heart. It is
one thing to be disobedient to your parents; it is quite another
matter to be given over, in your mind, to disobeying your
parents. In the former case, you commit sin. The
later case, you are given over, you are completely controlled by
your desires in a particular area (and there are 26 of them in this
list.)
jt: Are we straining at gnats here JD? Lust
is lust and the fruit of lust is more lust; does not matter where it is
found, it always spreads like yeast in bread dough. Romans 1
describes the gentile nations who God gave over to fleshly desires
because this was their life choice and He will always give us over to
our own desires in the end.
How do I know?
(a)
Because this the very point made in the preceding verse (that
would be verse 3)
jt: Verse 3 says that
by sending His Son in the likeness of flesh, condemned sin in the flesh;
it says nothing about
any incarnation.
Stop with this
empty criticism, Judy. Your own people at BSF speak of the
Incarnation . It is heresy to deny it.
jt: BSF speaks of the incarnation as historical
fact - which in fact it is; they have never made a doctrine of it which
denies the judgment of God against sin in individuals and negates the
ongoing work of sanctification in the life of the
believer.
