David Miller wrote: >> Jesus had these same temptations. John wrote: > So Christ was selfish, covetous, bigoted, > lustful, arrogant and the like ???
No, I said he was tempted in this way because his flesh had the same nature within it as you and I. Remember his temptation in the desert, when Satan offered him the kingdoms of this world? Do you not think that within his flesh, he was tempted by this just as he was tempted by hunger from within to turn the rocks into bread? John wrote: > He just did not act on it? > You lost me on that one. Please invite Bill Taylor back on to explain the Incarnation. He has acknowledged that he believes this also. This is what brought him to TruthTalk in the first place, when he saw my dialogue with Judy on this subject. He wanted to let me know that my teachings had support in history and that our modern culture has strayed from the Biblical and historical understanding of Jesus in this area. This is what the concept of the Incarnation is really all about. David Miller wrote: >> Why would a person committed to Christ not always >> choose to do what he knows he should be doing? >> Do you have an example of this? John wrote: > You, Lance, Deegan, me, and so on. Please do not speak for me, John. I was wondering if you had a specific example. Do you mean that if you knew that someone needed a coat, and you had two coats and knew that you should give one of your coats to this person because it was just their size, that you would not do it? What exactly do you have in mind that you would not do that you know you should do? I really do not understand what you have in mind. David Miller wrote: >> One of the reasons believers need to stop all sin >> is so that they can grow spiritually, which >> produces good character. John wrote: > Romans 7: 25 makes it clear that this is not true. > Two things are going on at the same time -- > the spiritual side is increasing and the fleshly > side is decreasing. No, John. Keep reading past Romans 7:25. Once a person recognizes that his flesh serves sin and that sin dwells within the physical body, whereas the Spirit serves Christ, then he can devote himself completely to that which is Spirit and reckon his body of flesh to be dead. I might agree with your statement that "two things are going on at the same time" in certain contexts, but to then argue that the spiritual side is increasing while the fleshly side is decreasing would be inaccurate. The believer needs to reckon his old man dead on a daily basis. Yes, his spiritual side will increase, but he is not slowly stopping sin while slowly increasing his interest in God. He stops sin and then increases spiritually. Sin and the spirit are contrary to each other, and one cannot grow spiritually while continuing in sin. Let me ask you something. Suppose someone was involved in adultery, and they came to you and told you about it. They also told you of their inner struggle, and that they just could not stop their affair because of their attraction for this other person. Would you tell that person to manage the adultery, to postpone seeing that other person for awhile? Or, would you tell that person that he needed to repent and stop the adulterous affair right away? Being in the counselling business, I suspect you have encountered such situations. Which would you do and what really works in solving the problem? John wrote: > Eph 4:22 -23 : ? ?lay aside the old self WHICH > IS BEING CORRUPTED in accordance with the lusts > of deceit and put on the new self ????? ? > they are happening at the same time. If we put on the new self and lay aside the old self, they are not both in play at the same time. They both exist at the same time, but one is alive and the other is reckoned dead. John wrote: > The source of sin is Satan -- and He makes > his approach in any of a number of ways. Romans 7 teaches us that sin dwells in the flesh. Therefore, the physical body also is a source of sin. John wrote: > You have it all worked out, David, while ignoring > it ugly realities in your very life. Sin's ugly realities in my life is what has caused me to work out a proper Biblical understanding of it. I have not ignored it. I have victory over sin through the grace of Jesus Christ but you do not believe me. John wrote: > As far as the ?John is a legalist? theme. > You have this theme for only one reason -- > hoping to irritate me. Not true, John. I only bring it up because you and others have used that as an accusation against me. It is truly my perspective that your so-called legalism has not changed one bit. I believe that you and others deceive yourselves. You think that by forsaking the law of God, you are no longer legalists, but the truth is that you have changed the object of your legalism from the written law to an ambiguous doctrine of grace that you erroneously teach is contrary to the law. John wrote: > And you simply love getting off subject, turning > the discussion back onto me. Ditto Deegan and Izzy. > Let?s just skip it, this time. It is immature for > all concerned. I'm sorry that you cannot understand the connections that I do. I will try to narrow my comments more in the future so that you do not become so irritated. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. 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