DH you've done below is quoted a lot of LDS folks who've commented on their personal beliefs.
LOL Personal beliefs????
Prophets & Apostles
That's funny!
Is this your Personal Belief?
You refute yourself.
And just what exactly does the QUALIFIER "as far as it is translated correctly" mean?
"we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."
Why is there NO Qualifying statement on the BoM?
Why is there NO Qualifying statement on the BoM?
Are you going to contend that LDS believe the Bible?
Why do so many Mormons then have this "personal opinion"?
the Bible is not completely translated correctly
Is this translated correctly?
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH: You forgot to include the single one doctrinal statement, Kevin.....
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; from the 8th Article of Faith as found in the PofGP
.......Excepting for a couple small parts of Nephi (taken out of context), what you've done below is quoted a lot of LDS folks who've commented on their personal beliefs. Such thoughts are not found in the Canon of the Standard Works of the Church. What I quoted above is official LDS doctrine, which explicitly explains that we do believe the Bible to be the word of God.....contrary to what you apparently want other TTers to think.
So Kevin, I find your comment.......
LDS have no faith in God's word.
........to be more than disingenuous, I find it to be an untruth. Do you wish to stand by that lie?
Kevin Deegan wrote:DAVEH: Wow, that's a pretty bold statement, Kevin. Is another example of a lie you are promulgating?
It is just the plain truth and very easy to prove, who is twisting here?
Who is lying here?
Joseph Smith also declared, "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (Translation of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 327).Apostle Mark E. Peterson said, "Many insertions were made, some of them 'slanted' for selfish purposes, while at times deliberate falsifications and fabrications were perpetrated" (As Translated Correctly, p. 4).Apostle Orson Pratt stated: "If it be admitted that the apostles and evangelists did write the books of the New Testament, that does not prove of itself that they were divinely inspired at the time they wrote.... Add all this imperfection to the uncertainty of the translation, and who, IN HIS RIGHT MIND could for one moment suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the Bible has escaped pollution, so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original?" (Divine Authority of the Book of Mormon, pp. 45, 47)LDS Apostle Orson Pratt further proclaimed, "The Bible has been robbed of its plainness; many sacred books having been lost, others rejected by the Romish Church, and what few we have left, were copied and re-copied so many times, that it is admitted that almost every verse has been corrupted and mutilated to that degree that scarcely any two of them read alike" (The Seer, p. 213)BOM, II Nephi 29:6-10 (Pg.110), "Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible and we need no more Bible? Wherefore because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written."Joseph Smith stated: "it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.10); "I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 327).
When: "the book [Bible] proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew...it contained the fullness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record" (1 Nephi 13:24), but afterwards "thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church...after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God. And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles" (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13:26,28). See also Doctrines of Salvation, vol.3, p.190-191.
"many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible...Wherefore because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written" (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 29:3,10).
When his "revelation" about Adam being God was disputed, Brigham Young stated: "You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe...I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child" ( Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.6).Orson Pratt's lack of confidence in the Bible is obvious: "...and who, in his right mind, could for one moment, suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? No one can tell whether even one verse of either the Old or New Testament conveys the ideas of the original author" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 28).Apostle Bruce McConkie: "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors, many plain and precious things were deleted, in consequence of which error and falsehood poured into the churches. One of the great heresies of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the inspired teachings now extant among men" (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 82,83).McConkie continues: The Bible of the Old World has come to us from the manuscripts of antiquity - manuscripts which passed through the hands of uninspired men who changed many parts to suit their own doctrinal ideas. Deletions were common, and, as it now stands, many plain and precious portions and many covenants of the Lord have been lost. As a consequence, those who rely upon it [the Bible] alone stumble and are confused... (The Ensign, December 1985, p 55).Mormon Apostle Mark E. Petersen accused manuscript copyists of deliberately tampering with the Bible: "Many insertions were made, some of them slanted for selfish purposes, while at times deliberate falsifications and fabrications were perpetrated" (As Translated Correctly, p.4).Comparisons made by Mormon Leaders between the Bible and Book of Mormon
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
President Ezra Taft Benson stated: "Unlike the Bible, which passed through generations of copyists, translators, and corrupt religionists who tampered with the text, the Book of Mormon came from writer to reader in just one inspired step of translation" ("The Keystone of Our Religion", The Ensign, January 1992, page 5).Joseph Smith claimed: "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was more correct than any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.194).An official and widely read LDS publication reads: "Men can get nearer to the Lord, can have more of the spirit of conversion and conformity in their hearts...can gain a better understanding of the doctrines of salvation through the Book of Mormon than they can through the Bible...there will be more people saved in the kingdom of God - ten thousand times over - because of the Book of Mormon than there will be because of the Bible" (The Ensign, November 1984, p. 7).A letter from the First Presidency (Presidents Benson, Hinckley, and Monson) to all members of the Church states: "The most reliable way to measure the accuracy of any biblical passage is not by comparing different texts, but by comparison with the Book of Mormon and modern-day revelations". (Church News, June 20, 1992, page 3, letter dated May 22, 1992).LDS have no faith in God's word.
DAVEH: Wow, that's a pretty bold statement, Kevin. Is another example of a lie you are promulgating?
Kevin Deegan wrote:LDS have no faith in God's word.The LDS god is a pipsqueak who can not preserve his word lost it in a hill for thousands of years. Lost the faith too, for almost 200years there was NO faith on earth, with a pipsqueak like that, nothing is shocking.
Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>From: Dave Hansen
>
>Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>
>>Dave. Look at me. He has already made that judgement, not me.
>
>DAVEH: From the tone of you posts, it didn't seem that way.
>
>>He wrote it in the Bible so that I can know the real Jesus and God, and
>>not go chasing after false ones.
>
>DAVEH: As I see it, you've cut short your ability to see beyond the Bible,
>Perry. You apparently see the The Bible as being enough, yet I think
>presents unasked questions that many Protestants (and TTers) seem to want
>to avoid pondering. I just don't feel comfortable with such a limited
>perspective.
The Bible IS enough, Dave. The Bible contains prophecy that sees through
to the end, way beyond when it was written. So, why would anything mor e be
ne eded? It has served its intended purpose for thousands of years without
the musings of JS, and will continue to server that purpose until the end of
all things. It is the mormons that have itching ears and seek the doctrines
of man (specifically JS), to turn a phrase. Enjoy it, Dave. That's as good
as it gets.
Perry-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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