Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah

[Lance Muir]

It's a damn fine outline, Kevin! I'm genuinely interested to distinguish between an 'extra-natural' vs a 'natural' account of the origins of both (Koran/BOM). This is one impressive bit of work!   thanks for this, Lance ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 21, 2005 07:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah I might if i get a chance (time) I believe it to be the same "caractor" Don't know that I could provide an airtight case, but there is much similarity Why bother when there is a good overview her, in case you are unfamiliar with the facts Since ALLAH came first see point 3 & 4 "I know the church is true" http://www.bible.ca/islam/islamic-mormonism-similarities.htm Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel "Moroni" and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 places both under a CURSE Both were given visions. Both were told that no true religion existed on the earth. In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the "strife among the different denominations," and this "cry and tumult" led him to ask God "which of all the sects were right — and which I should join." He was told that he must "join none of them, for they were all wrong... that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:8-19) N. J. Dawood says that Mohammed was also concerned with the fact that the Jews and Christians had "divided themselves into schismatic sects." In the scriptures given by Mohammed, we read: "Yet the Sects are divided concerning Jesus.... Truly, the unbelievers are in the grossest error." (The Koran, translated by N. J. Dawood, Surah 19, p. 34) In Surah 30, page 190, this warning appears: "Do not split up your religion into sects, each exulting in its own beliefs." In Surah 3, page 398, we read: "The only true faith in Allah's sight is Islam. Those to whom the Scriptures [i.e., Jews and Christians] were given disagreed among themselves through jealousy only after knowledge had been given them." Both were to restore the long lost faith as the one true religion. Islam makes claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims, a claim that is as ridiculous as it is undocumented from either history or archaeology. Mormons make the unsubstantiated claim that the church in the first century were Mormon. Both wrote a book inspired by God. Both claimed to be illiterate or uneducated and used this as proof the book was inspired. "How could an illiterate man write the Koran or the Book of Mormon?" Joseph Smith is claimed to have only grade three education. Both claimed the Bible was lost, altered, corrupted and unreliable. Both claimed their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth. Both claimed that their new "Bible" was based upon a record stored in heaven. With Islam, it is the "mother book" that resides in heaven with God. With Mormonism, it is the golden Nephi plates that the angel Moroni took back to heaven. Both claim that the version we have in our hands today are identical to what the prophet revealed and that parts are not lost, altered and corrupted. Of course the proof that these claims are invalid is found in two books. The Mormon claim is proven false by a book called "3913 Changes to Book of Mormon" by Sandra Tanner. The Islamic claim is proven false by a book (In Arabic language) called, "Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down" by Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun. Both books show that the copy of the book of Mormon and the Koran used today is different from what was originally used when each religion was started. Both claimed to be a final prophet of God. Both claimed they were persecuted because of their pure faith. Both were polygamists who had many wives. Both borrowed from paganism/polytheism. Muhammad incorporated that polytheistic moon god called "Allah" and "Allah's three daughters" into Islam. Basically Muhammad chose Allah from within 350 known gods that were worshipped in Arabia and proclaimed the moon god to be the greatest and only God. Smith borrowed from a doctrine called "pyramidology" and the Masons and other magic systems. Both received "after the fact corrective revelations" from God. Muhammad retracted the Satanic verses and Smith retracted his divine order mandating polygamy. But for Mormons it there is even a closer parallel. Sounds exactly like Muhammad and his satanic verses. "As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi... which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again — and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated... I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil." (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, Preface) Immediately after the death of Muhammad and Smith, a fight broke out from among the "faithful converts" as to who would succeed Muhammad and Smith. Both groups were plunged into irreparable division that has endured ever since. Islam and Mormonism both have squabbles among themselves as to who is the one true splinter group of their prophet! Mormons, contrary to "baptize the dead" by gathering genealogies of all men who lived on earth. This contradicts the Bible: "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless." Tit 3:9 While the Bible says avoid focusing in Genealogies, the Mormon church makes it their central focus of mission. Mormons have even been criticized for baptizing, by proxy, the Jews had died in Nazi Holocaust camps. When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died. In this way, Mormons view every man who lived, as being Mormons. In the same way Muslims claim that all men are born Muslims and when they learn the truth of Christianity, they are apostatizing from their first faith. Muslims re-write history by proclaiming Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims in a similar way Mormons baptize Jews (for example) with the expectation they will be Mormons in the next life. Yet gathering of large genealogical lists no more makes dead people Mormons in the next life, than re-writing history makes Jesus into a Muslim. Both the Islam and Mormon religions have those who follow the "original doctrine" of the founding leaders and like these founding leaders, are violent, polygamists, and have revelations justifying their evil actions. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Linda asks 'Don't you, Lance?' of the query: 'Do you believe Satan to have been the inspiration for both the Koran and the BOM'? I doubt that either was inspired by Satan. IFF you, Kevin and Perry actually KNOW THIS TO BE THE CASE then, lay it out for a misguided 'lib'. None of you will, of course but, at least you got asked. ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: June 20, 2005 23:44 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hill Cumorah   Don’t you, Lance? If not, you’re “lost-er” than I thunk!!!  Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Do 'you' believe that Muhammed was inspired to write the Koran by the same one who inspired the BOM namely, Satan? Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.