Judy Taylor wrote:
That is reality in light of the rest of
God's Word DaveH because it is only the remnant who make it, the ones
who find the strait gate and the narrow way even though God so loved
the world - and yes I do believe all mortals will be resurrected but
for different purposes
DAVEH: Do you recognize the importance of ALL being resurrected?
Ever wonder why having a physical body is so important? IOW...Why does
God need a physical body, and why did he make it possible for us to
have one?
- What do you mean born into mortality
due to the grace of Jesus?
DAVEH: I did not say that, Judy. You inadvertently misquoted me.
Read it again and put a comma after mortality. If it is not
clear what I meant, ask again and I'll explain it. (Isn't it
interesting how something as simple as a comma can change the whole
meaning of a statement. Now consider the lack of punctuation in the
early manuscripts that were used in translating the Bible.)
DAVEH: Does the Bible say he was a potential Savior of the
world, or is that just your interpretation, Judy? Do you believe all
mortals will be resurrected, Judy? Prior to Jesus, nobody was able to
rise from the chasm we call mortal death. The Bible tells us that
because of Jesus, all men will be able to defeat that state by being
resurrected. The level of goodness/badness to which they will be
resurrected is really not pertinent to the fact that IF one is born
into mortality, due to the grace of Jesus he will eventually overcome
physical death through a resurrective process that is not available to
Satan and his minions that fought against the Lord in the pre-earthly
heavenly battle.
As for spiritual salvation (I'm not sure that's the best way to
describe it), I agree with you....Jesus' grace only applies to those
who take upon themselves his name and are obedient to his will.
Judy Taylor wrote:
He died potentially for the whole
world DaveH; but he becomes savior only to those who
both receive and obey Him
That is, the wise ones who build their
houses upon the rock. (see Acts 5:32; Hebrews 5:9). jt
DAVEH: You are suggesting Jesus was a different person
to those who did not accept his message, compared to those who did
accept the gospel? Hmmmm....that seems a bit odd to me, Judy. Was
Jesus Savior to all the world? Did he only come for the believers?
IMHO, Jesus died for all people. Whether he is accepted by them or
not....he is the same Lord, yesterday, today and forever.
Judy Taylor wrote:
No. They weren't all focused on
the same Jesus DaveH. Some heard Him and others did not. It wasn't his
physical presence that was so important, it was His teaching. The
selection process goes like this. The ones who heard His Word were of
God and the others were of their father
the devil. (see John 8:47).
DAVEH: Easy, Kevin. Jesus walked the Holy Land and
was seen much differently by many people. Some recognized him as their
Saviour and King, while others viewed him as a major threat. Even
though they each had their differences of opinion as to where he came
from, what he was doing during his ministry, and what his relationship
to deity.....wouldn't you agree they were all focused on the same
Jesus. When Jesus hung on the cross, there was not a question of which
Jesus hung on the cross. The only question was who's view more
accurately represented the real Jesus.
Do you suppose that after the tomb was sealed that all of Jesus'
followers continued to believe he was the Messiah, that he was God who
could not be defeated by his enemies? Or....do you think there may have
been more than a few who might have been thinking their view of Jesus
might have been wrong? If you think there was no doubt.....go back and
read the accounts of those who first saw Jesus after he arose.
The point being.....no matter what the perspective of those who saw
Jesus hanging on that cross.....he was still the same
person.....Jesus.
And FTR, I will repeat this again so there is no mistake on your
part or any other TTer. The Jesus I believe in is the same Jesus who
hung on the cross by his enemies, and 3 days later arose in a
resurrected state of exaltation. That is my Jesus, and I believe he
is your Jesus. That we may have different perspective of some of the
details about his attributes does not mean that we are not talking
about the same Jesus that hung on the cross as explained in the Bible.
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