Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus the Creator Created?

[Dave Hansen]

Judy Taylor wrote:     On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:09:37 -0700 Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Terry wrote: In the BEGINNING was the WORD, and the Word was with GOD and the WORD was GOD.  HE was in the BEGINNING with GOD.( Not created, not a son.  HE WAS AND IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE GOD! )  No response required.  Case closed.  Overwhelming evidence. DAVEH:    Thank you for responding to my new thread.  Your answer implies a certain reluctance to continue this discussion, but if you are willing, may I ask you a few more questions about your belief, Terry? jt: Do you mind if I take a shot at it DaveH? DAVEH:  I'd love to hear from you or anybody else willing to respond, Judy.   If you notice I have missed some responses to other threads I may have mistakenly deleted - please refwd if it is important. 1)  Do you understand this to mean that Jesus and his Heavenly Father existed before the earth was formed?   IOW... Prior to the beginning creation, what do you believe existed?  God the Father?  Jesus?  Or both?   jt: The Godhead existed - One God - a unity in plurality consisting of God the Father, God the Word, and God the Spirit. DAVEH:  When you say, God the Word....is that a direct reference to Jesus?   IOW...Do you believe Jesus existed before the beginning creation? 2)  And how do you understand the creation at the beginning.....was the creation a process of organizing existing matter, or do you believe matter was created out of nothing?   jt: The Father willed it, the Word spoke it, the Spirit brought it into being. DAVEH:  Did anything exist before that happened?  IOW....do you believe the creation happened out of nothing, or do you believe the creation an organization of matter that was simply unorganized? 3)   What do you believe the significance of Paul's comment in Col 1:15 about Jesus being firstborn of creatures.....   jt: Paul is alluding to the New Creation in Col 1; Jesus is the firstborn of the New Creation which took place when he was raised from the dead. DAVEH:  Thanx for your explanation on that. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: .....May I assume you believe there was a second, third, fourth, etc born of creatures?  Do you view this in a literal sense, or figurative?   jt: It's literal because until we are born from above or "born again" we are under a curse and spiritually dead. DAVEH:   ???   Are you implying Jesus (as firstborn) was under the same curse, and was spiritually dead?     May I reiterate what I said before, Terry.  If you will be so kind as to respond to my questions, I will not try to entrap you, denigrate or humiliate your beliefs in any way.  I am just interested in how you perceive the creation. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.