[TruthTalk] Is Perry an Anti-Mormon?

[Dave Hansen]

Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave,   Here is the Google definition you sent.   "Anti-Mormonism is an overt opposition to Mormonism, often specifically to Mormonism's largest and most prominent sect, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("LDS Church"; see also Mormon). Anti-Mormon activities range from reasoned arguments (often references to Archeology or the Bible) to scathing expos s and public protests"   Read the first sentence. This is what I have been saying all along. "Anti-Mormonism is an overt opposition to Mormonism". DAVEH:  I've never disputed that, Perry.   "Anti-mormon" is a misnomer when applied to me. Now, if I was against, or hated, or wished ill upon MORMONS, then I would consider myself anti-mormon, but I am not, and I do not have to accept that label if it does not appliy to me. DAVEH:   Apparently you did not read the second half of the definition, Perry....... Anti-Mormon activities range from reasoned arguments (often references to Archeology or the Bible) to scathing expos s and public protests" .......Seems to me that you meet that definition, Perry.  Do you disagree?   Example: Do you agree with the homosexual lifestyle? That it is wholesome and acceptable? If not, you may be a HOMOPHOBE! Do you fear homosexuality? Probably not, even though you may not agree with the lifestyle. A Phobia ia an irrational fear of something, in this case homosexuals. You see, it is a misnomer. DAVEH:   Anti-Mormon as defined by LDS folks is not a misnomer when applied to you.  It accurately describes what you are in our eyes, and by our definition.    You simply meet the definition of anti-Mormon as LDS folks have coined it.  Would you like me to provide you more definitions to support the ones I've already posted? It's purpose is to cast those that disagree with that lifestyle into a castigated group. I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I am not a homophobe any more than I am an anti-mormon. I am anti-mormonism, not anti-mormon.   Do you understand the difference? Do you use the word "homophobe" to label those who do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle? Are you a homophobe? Don't accept labels that mis-represent your beliefs, David.   You can continue to call me anti-mormon if you wish, but you are labeling me incorrectly when you do so. DAVEH:   That is simply nonsense, Perry.  I've given you the definition.   Why do you persist in trying to change the definition?  Are you a mormo-phobe?   :-) If you do so, I will know it is intentionally to antagonize me with a lebel that does not apply. DAVEH:   Your refusal to acknowledge an accurate definition is very interesting.   FTR....I am not trying to intentionally antagonize you, and the label does apply.  If anything, I'm trying to keep you from self deceiving yourself. But, if you want to say I am anti-mormonism, then you will be accurate. What is it to you to put 3 letters at the end to make it "ism"? DAVEH:   LDS folks have been using the anti-Mormon terms for a very long time (well before you were born).   Interestingly, I don't remember much (if anything) ever being said in the past by LDS folks using the term anti-Mormonism.  I don't think it is normally used by LDS folks, as far as I can recall.   So...to be accurate, again from an LDS standpoint, you meet our definition of anti-Mormon. Is is the difference between trying to antagonize the sutuation v. being accurate. You choose. DAVEH:  I'm sorry if you feel the truth antagonizes you, Perry.   I am also sorry you feel I am trying to antagonize you by staying true to the definition of anti-Mormon.  I think I've tried to maintain an amicable and respectable  relationship with you....a guy who has previously described me as a sly ol' mormon boy, have you not?  If anything was said in an effort to inflame, I would think that qualifies.  Yet I am not complaining, Perry.  I recognize that is the way you perceive me, and if that is what you truly believe....that is your prerogative.  But if you think I use the term to describe you is inflammatory, you are wrong.  It is a term that accurately describes you.      Even if we were to use your definition of anti-Mormon.....would not your use of sly ol' mormon boy pretty well convince anybody following this discussion that you accurately qualify as an an anti-Mormon as you've defined it?  If so, why are you so critical of me recognizing you as you portray yourself?   And yes, you did tell me that mormons coined the term "anti-mormon" for those that are against mormonism. That is no different than the homosexuals coining the term "homophobe" to describe those that disagree with their lifestyle. It's purpose is not to be accurate...it is to inflame (so to speak). DAVEH:  Once again, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion, Perry. Perry From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:32:34 -0700 Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, And who defined "anti-mormon" to mean "anti-mormonsim"? You said the  mormons did. DAVEH:  I did???  Are you sure about that, Perry?  I don't recall saying such, but it is pretty synonymous, IMO.   Have you ever googled *DEFINE ANTI-MORMON*? <http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3AAnti-Mormon&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&biw=> That is no different than any other word they have redefined for their own purposes. DAVEH:  From the google definition, it appears you are the one trying to redefine it, Perry. Why does it bother you that as an anti-Mormonism, you also meet the definition of anti-Mormon??? Perry From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:43:35 -0700 * This is the problem with the dual meanings that mormons assign to words...they don't mean what they used to mean. So, we can talk all day with them about soiritual matters and we think that they are in agreement with us, when really the words mean something different to them. Like the Queen of Hearts said, "When I use a word it means exactly what I want it to mean!" * DAVEH:   I have chatted with DavidM enough to know what he believes (or should I say doesn't believe) about the pre-mortal existence of our spirits, just as he explained to you in a parallel post today Perry.   But I do find it amusing that you continue to criticize Mormons for having dual meanings when you do the same thing with the term *anti-Mormon.* Charles Perry Locke wrote: > DAVEH wrote: > May I presume you believe free agency existed in the pre-mortal existence? DavidM responded: Yes. Perry cautioned: David, be careful here. When a mormon says "pre-mortal existence" I believe they mean a little more than you may know. To the mormon I believe that to say "pre-mortal existence" refers to the existence of jesus, satan, you, me, and all other humans in a pre-mortal spiritual state as spiritual siblings, whereas, I believe that you may think of the premortal state as being prior to the time Adam was created. Essentially, you just agreed with the sly ol' mormon boy that prior to your being born into a body (pre-mortal state), you believe you had free agency, along with satan, jesus, and all of your myriad spiritual siblings. Is that what you believe? * This is the problem with the dual meanings that mormons assign to words...they don't mean what they used to mean. So, we can talk all day with them about soiritual matters and we think that they are in agreement with us, when really the words mean something different to them. Like the Queen of Hearts said, "When I use a word it means exactly what I want it to mean!" * Perry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.