Perhaps I did not receive this? Repost, please.
JD
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:29:32 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
I sent a general message to all Mormons, participants and 'lurkers' alike, wherein I asked a number of questions. It was an attempt on my part to address the issue of diversity within your tradition. I excluded those you'd deem either fringe or fundamentalist groups. I don't recall anyone responding. If there exists no variance of understanding on important matters, it would kind of scare me.
----- Original Message -----From: Dave HansenSent: June 27, 2005 10:19Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:DAVEH: Agreed. So outside the Mormons here, why do you think there is such divisive set of opinions and discussions on TT?DAveH --- no need to answer the post sent minutes ago. I have my answer herein.To my way of thinking -- when "unity" becomes more important than personal passion (faith), such passages as Romans 14:4 are contradicted. The notion that truth is a corporate conclusion is completely foreign to me -- as I understand the biblical message. Differences of understanding need not be divisive.
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 00:49:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
DAVEH: Yes Bishop, I'm referring to conformity of beliefs for the most part. Though I think the unity of faith (harmonious attitudes, as you put it) play an important role as well.
From our perspective, most LDS folks truly believe our Prophet is the spokesman for the Lord in our time. So, we believe if the Lord wants us to know or do something different, he will speak through his servant to us as a whole. IF there is any question that becomes a divisive factor, we look to the Prophet 's counsel to give us the direction we need to go as a group. It's pretty rare for doctrinal disputations to reach beyond private discussion. If somebo dy wants to make a public spectacle out of an issue, it i s pretty much grounds for excommunication.
So.....intellectually strong individuals who cannot conform their beliefs within the framework of official LDS theology do not fit in very well. And if their intellectual stubbornness exceeds their level of faith in their Church Leaders, it is akin to fitting a round peg in a square hole. Those who do harbor their own pet theological theories who want to remain faithful avoid publicizing their intellectual disagreements. Once they attempt to publicly politicize their dispute with the Church, they no longer fit in with the rest of the folks who tend not to want to have disharmony exist in the ranks.
Which brings us back to the harmonious attitudes. Mormonism tends to be very cultural in nature. Th at w hich disrupts is out of harmony with not only God, but the Family and the congregation. We believe success comes by working together. We don't look to one pastor to hold a Ward (congregation) together, but it is the combined effort of every person in the Ward to assist the Ward Shepherd (Bishop) in keeping it humming (usually to the tune of PUT YOUR SHOULDER TO THE WHEEL) along. Our strongest Wards are those where the most folks pitch in to do the most work, which leads to strong fellowship. Those that are weakest are those where the members expect others to do the work.
As I perceive TT, there is little sense of purpose or guidance. Nor does there seem to be much appreciation for oneness of belief. I imagine everybody in TT believes they know the truth, but yet I don't think they really appreciate that all the variations of trut h they have here all stems from a single source (as they perceive it)....the Bible. Numerous times folks have told me I am wrong and that it is very simple to learn the truth by rejecting anything LDS and just read the Bible. Quite often they suggest the truth of the Bible is so obvious. Yet if it were so easy to discern the truth from the Bible, why are there so many disagreements as to what the Bible tells us? And then look at why different churches start up. Seems like Protestants is a good term to describe many Christians.....they tend to want to protest that which somebody else teaches them. If they don't like doctrines of one church, it is relatively easy to start another.
While the LDS Church has experienced similar factions in it's wake, I se e it a bit differently. In our case, most who don't fi t into the paradigm are excommunicated for not towing the line, so to speak. Then they go out and form their own church to emulate the LDS Church, using the root teachings. Contrast that to the Protestant churches, that seem to break off by protesting what the mother church doctrinally dictates. Is that not the process by which Luther left the RCC.. And on down the line. Baptists believed one way, Methodists another. Now we see it in the Episcopalian Church, as some want to think gays are OK in the ministry, while others don't. Instead of excommunicating the errant believers, I suspect they will simply divide the Church into two separate entities, each having a distinctly different doctrine about gay folks.
Yikes....I yak on too much. I hope that makes some sense, John. Sorry to blather on and on.......
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: I think you are taking my example out of context, DavidM. I was trying to point out that right or wrong, I believe most knowledgeable LDS folks tend to be a little more homogeneous in their beliefs than do TTers.
Hi Dave. I would agree with this observation. Allowing for the truth of this observation, why do you suppose this is the case? I assume you are speaking more to "doctrinal sameness" than to harmonious attitudes.JD
