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Why are you asking me, Kevin? It is Izzy's prophet
criterion which is in question. I think one's character is mighty important; and
this I'm sure for many of the same reasons you do. I am talking about dismissing
a man's arguments by attacking his person, whether it be an attack against his
"character" or his social status, or just the way he looks.
Do you consider an ad hom attack against Calvin,
e.g., concerning his dealings with Servetus, to be legitimate grounds for
dismissing his views on Election or the Sovereignty of God or the Sacraments? I
don't. I think if you want to disagree with Calvin (or another's reference to
Calvin) on these issues, you should do so on the basis of what he wrote
about them. That's what I'm saying.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator
commant **
So the "CARACTOR" of a man does not matter?
Did David "contract a spirit of Whoredom" as one of the "prophets"
own witnesses described the Smith's ways?
Let's see--did King David also write the BoM
(the sci-fi novel which has deceived millions?) Or perhaps he did that
and repented of it as well? (Unlike JSmith who never repented of
either.) Izzy
According to your criterion, Izzy, what
difference should it make: "I believe the fact that he was an adulterer
totally discredits his credentials as a prophet of god"?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:57
PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant
**
> Let's see--did King David also write the BoM (the sci-fi novel
which has
> deceived millions?) Or perhaps he did that and repented of
it as well?
> (Unlike JSmith who never repented of either.)
Izzy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill
Taylor
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:55 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant **
>
> Izzy wrote > Perry, how does that relate to JSmith
and the mormons? I
> believe the fact that he was an adulterer totally
discredits his credentials
> as a prophet of god.
>
>
>
> How then were King David's credentials any better? Ought
he be disqualified
> by the same criterion?
>
>
Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
"ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:42 PM
> Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant **
>
>
> > I
believe the fact
> > that he was an adulterer totally discredits
his credentials as a prophet
> of
> > god. Izzy
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Charles Perry
> Locke
> > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 9:03
AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant **
>
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > In TT we are
trying to prevent discussions from becoming emotional in
> > nature
because of demeaning and hurtful statements, so it applies directly
>
> to the persons with whom we are immeditaly engaging in debate.
>
>
> > However, from a debating point of view
if one chooses to bring in
> > arguments made by another, say
Calvin, those arguments, too, should have
> to
> > stand on
the facts of Calvin's argument, not on personal attacks on
>
Calvin.
> >
> > Perry
> >
> > >From:
"Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > >To: <[email protected]>
> > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant
**
> > >Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:29:28 -0600
> >
>
> > >Hi Perry, I am impressed by your sincerity and
humility. Thanks for the
> > >great example to the rest of
us.
> > >
> > >I have a question for you. You write
that "Specifically, 'ad hominem
> > >argumentum', [which is what
is mentioned on the TT discussions guidelines
> > >page]
refers to trying to gain an edge in an argument by attacking the
>
> >person rather than the topic, again, regardless whether it is true
or
> > >false.' Does this apply only to the one with whom one is
arguing, or does
> > >it
> > >apply as well to
attacks against the person of persons whom one might
> >
>reference in constructing ones arguments. For example, a dismissal
of
> John
> > >Calvin's views on election via an attack
against him as a person, i.e.,
> his
> > >dealings with
Servatis; or a dismissal of the content and substance of
> the
>
> >Nicene Creed because it was formulated by supposedly corrupt
Roman
> > >Catholics -- are these ad hominem arguments
acceptable forms of
> > >argumentation on TruthTalk?
>
> >
> > >Bill
> > >----- Original Message
-----
> > >From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:03 AM
>
> >Subject: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant **
> >
>
> > >
> > > > TT members,
> > >
>
> > > > I have been contacted by email
privately and informed that my
> > >referring
> > >
> to DaveH as a "sly ol' mormon boy" was an ad hominem reference.
After
> > >some
> > > > discussion back and
forth, and some research, I am convinced that it
> is
>
> >so
> > > > and that I need to apologize to
Dave.
> > > >
> > > > I
previously thought that if one merely stated a belief about
>
someone
> > > > that was true, that it was not an ad hominem
statement, but upon doing
> a
> > > > little researh I
discovered that it does not matter whether it is true
> >
>or
> > > > not...an ad hominem reference is a comment "to
the man", so saying
> > >anything
> > > > about
anyone personally, whether true or not, positive or negative, is
>
> >an
> > >ad
> > > > hominem reference. If
I were to say, "John, I really think you are a
> >
>smart
> > > > guy", that is an ad hominem reference, too,
because it is directed at
> > > > someone personally.
>
> > >
> > > > However, on TT
I think it is a little more specific in that TT
> >
>wishes
> > >to
> > > > avoid the NEGATIVE ad
hominem reference, that is, one that the
> receiver
> >
>of
> > > > the comment would find insulting. Dave
indicated in a post that he
> > >thought
> > > >
"sly ol' mormon boy" was an ad hominem reference.
> > >
>
> > > > So, with this in mind, Dave, I
apologize to you for making an
> > >ad-hominem
> > >
> reference.
> > > >
> > >
> The above is a very general interpretation of "ad
hominem".
> > >Specifically,
> > > > "ad hominem
argumentum", [which is what is mentioned on the TT
> >
>discussions
> > > > guidelines page] refers to
trying to gain an edge in an argument by
> > > > attacking
the person rather than the topic, again, regardless whether
>
it
> > >is
> > > > true or false.
> >
> >
> > > > Even though I am acting
as moderator, I, too, am prone to making
> > > >
inappropriate remarks at times, and I welcome private email from
>
anyone
> > >that
> > > > would like to point out
such comments. If we have only one watcher,
> who
> > >
> watches the watcher? While I moderate the group, the group
moderates
> me.
> > > >
> > > > Perry
the Moderator
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > ----------
> > > > "Let your speech be always with
grace, seasoned with salt, that you
> may
> > >know how
you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> >
>http://www.InnGlory.org
> > > >
> > > > If
you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If
you have a
> > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an
e-mail to
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
subscribed.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > >----------
> > >"Let your speech be always
with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> > >know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> >
>http://www.InnGlory.org
> > >
> > >If you do not
want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> >
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
have a
> > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail
to
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be
subscribed.
> >
> >
> > ----------
> >
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
may
> know
> > how you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6)
> > http://www.InnGlory.org
>
>
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send
an email to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
> > friend who wants
to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with
salt, that you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this
list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
> friend who wants to
join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed.
> >
>
>
>
----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with
salt, that you may know
> how you ought to answer every man."
(Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list,
send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
> friend who wants to
join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed.
>
>
>
> ----------
>
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell
him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he
will be subscribed.
>
>
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