Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant **

[Bill Taylor]

Hi g, I've jotted a few thoughts pertaining to your question as to my understanding of "forgiveness" in the NT. Please enjoy:   I believe forgiveness of humanity is a present reality in Christ Jesus. There is no one living today who is not living in a state of ontological forgiveness (I use the term ontological to distinguish between our status in Christ and the practical application of that status in existential confession of sin). I believe further that redemption (2Pet 2.1), reconciliation (2Cor 5.18-19; Rom 5.10), restoration (i.e., recapitulation: Eph 1.10), justification (Rom 5.18), and atonement (1Joh 2.2; 2Cor 5.14), are a fait accompli in Christ Jesus, the One for the many (Rom .15-21), the living God, who is the savior of all humans, especially those who believe (1Tim 4.10). Hence I also believe that salvation is not just an eschatological possibility with contingencies resting upon human shoulders, it is reality right here, right now, for us all.   Those who believe in Jesus Christ respond to him by faith, whereby they are sealed with the Holy Spirit and will never see destruction (Eph 1.13ff; 4.30; 2Cor 1.21-22; Joh 5.24; Rom 8.1; 8.38-39; 1Joh 5.13). Those who do not believe fall into more than one category: those who cannot believe (infants and certain mentally disabled); those who could believe but have not heard; those who could believe but have not yet committed themselves to him by faith; and those who have heard, could believe, but are passionately rejecting the present witness of the Holy Spirit to Christ. This last group, if they should die in their denial, commit that sin for which there is no forgiveness -- which makes sense when one considers that they are refusing not only the one who has forgiven them, but the only one who can ultimately forgive them their sins; in denial they sever themselves from their Savior. The "unpardonable" aspect of this sin, however, is actually realized in the eschaton and not in this life -- hence what I understood you to be saying with the words, "one's denial of the presence of the future in history is precisely one's denial of Christ present to forgive him now in the person of the Holy Spirit."   And so, what about the fait accompli from above: Do these people remain in a state of redemption, etc., throughout their lifetime? Yes, I believe they do. These are those who are represented by the older brother in the parable of the prodigal son. Although the inheritance is fully theirs, and at their Father's request they could join the party at any time, they stand within earshot of the celebration refusing to participate. Should they die out there in the cold, then, it will not be because they were not sons (and daughters) of God by way of adoption in Christ; it will be because they refused to participate in the "dance." They are his children but refuse to act as such.   Moreover, the fact that there is resurrection for everyone (1Cor 15.21-22) is, in my opinion, the strongest evidence for this fait accompli. When Jesus died he changed the nature of death for everyone. All are included in his death and all are included in his resurrection. As Representative Man, he is all things for all people. What he did in his person, he did for all persons, the One for the many; the many in the One. All are included in him (Rom 5.10ff; Col 1.17; Eph 1.10; 1Joh 2.2).   This, then, is the context for contemplating the "second death" on the other side of resurrection. The first death is on Christ, so to speak, in that he picks up the cost of that one -- great news, too, because there is resurrection! But there is no "sacrifice" to cover a blatant refusal of him (cf. Heb 6, no one can crucify again the Son of God); hence there is no pardon for the sin of rejection. And sin, whether in this lifetime or the next, only produces one thing and that is death (I will get into this further in my response to DaveH). To paraphrase what Jesus was saying, every sin that humans commit will be forgiven them (an act which has taken place in his passion), except the sin of rejecting the One who will die to effectuate the forgiveness of their sins (as attested to by the Holy Spirit). To reject Christ is to reject the One in whom there is forgiveness. And to do it unto death, is to have your name "blotted out" of the Lamb's book of life (Rev 3.5). There is therefore a second death which awaits those who have rejected him and have died in that state. In resurrected bodies they will be confronted by the consequence of that sin -- and this without a "Savior." Hence they will meet death again; this time picking up their own tab.    Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant ** what's you understanding of 'forgiveness' in the NT?   On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:35:55 -0600 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:   Couldn't have said it any better, not even if I were the Bish. Right on, G.     ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ** Moderator commant ** in Matt 12 one's present experience of JCs future forgiveness is of the Holy Spirit ||