JD, since God does not change and
is the same yesterday, today, and forever Why would it make a difference when the examples are
written?
Because God does
change the way in which he deals with his people, Judy. For example,
"God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the
fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son,
whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the
worlds." Do you see any significance here to your argument above?
No I don't. I am speaking of God's
standards and they have not changed any more than he has. I can agree
that a born again
person who is empowered by the Holy Spirit
will have the desire and power to overcome in life and meet these
standards.
I do. Firstly,
God has changed the way he speaks to his people
and, secondly, in this same Son, he has changed the way in
which he relates to them -- now as Father by way of their
adoption in him. And so it does make a difference
when the examples are written.
Why? The testimony of Jesus is the
Spirit of prophecy - the same Spirit that spoke through the prophets.
The covenant is different
but there are covenant blessings and curses
today just as there was then and there is a sacrifice we can go to today just
as there
was then. Admittedly our sacrifice is
better as it is an eternal one as are the promises we have been
given.
God "kicked" Adam et al out of the
garden for a very good reason: "lest he put out his hand and take also of
the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." It was not to exclude Adam from
the "kingdom" that he kicked him out of the garden, but to insure that he
and his posterity might be included in it on that day when the Son through
whom he had created the worlds, would become the Head of all things, the
Second Adam, in whom all things consist, which is precisely what took
place many thousands of years later.
Really? So you know for sure that the
first Adam made it in spite of himself?
Hence Paul could write: "He has delivered us from
the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of
His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness
of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that
are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for
Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And
He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn
from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. For it
pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by
Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or
things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
Bill
Can we agree that the above is written post
resurrection and that it speaks of the "resurrected Christ" - the one
described in Revelation 1:11-18? I have a problem with the way you run
everything together as though it were a done deal - like some kind of
impersonal logical formula because by doing this you completely
ignore all the "ifs, ands, and buts" in between which are also an important
part of the
written record. jt..
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 1:42
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for
the eternal sonship of Christ
JD, since God does not change and is the same
yesterday, today, and forever
Why would it make a difference when the examples
are written? We are the ones who do the changing.
He stays the same.
It is of note to me that your examples do not include the New
Covenant family of God.
I rest my case. JD From: David Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
John wrote:
> But God does not kick us out of the family
> -- we leave.
This is true in some cases, such as the prodigal son, but God also kicks
people out who he does not want to be there. If God can kick Lucifer out,
and if he can kick the angels that sinned out, and if he can kick Adam out
of the garden, etc., well, we have a pretty clear picture that God kicks
people out despite their desire to be in his kingdom.
Luke 13:24-28
(24) Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will
seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
(25) When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the
door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord,
Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not
whence ye are:
(26) Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence,
and thou hast taught in our streets.
(27) But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from
me, all ye workers of iniquity.
(28) There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see
Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God,
and you yourselves thrust out.
Matthew 7:19-23
(19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast
into the fire.
(20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
that work iniquity.
Matthew 25:8-13
(8) And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps
are gone out.
(9) But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us
and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
(10) And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were
ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
(11) Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
(12) But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
(13) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the
Son of man cometh.
Matthew 25:29-46
(29) For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have
abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he
hath.
(30) And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall
be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels
with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
(32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate
them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the
left.
(34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed
of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of
the world:
(35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave
me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
(36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in
prison, and ye came unto me.
(37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an
hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
(38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed
thee?
(39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
(40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye
have done it unto me.
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
(42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye
gave me no drink:
(43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an
hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did
not minister unto thee?
(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as
ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous
into life eternal.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how
you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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