Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus of the Bible

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 06:41:32 -0700

I spoke for myself.   You are a works-salvationist in my opinion -  understanding that I believe that such is defined as "one believing that man must maintain a level of righteousness in order to continue the saving act from God."   You don't believe this?   I will apologize.   What is it?    
 
JD 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 04:56:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus of the Bible

Don't speak for me JD you have never gotten ONE thing right, when doing so.
You either have a understanding problem or love your straw men

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have highlighted what is especially important to me in BT words below.   Reread and let it soak in.
And  while you are at it,  understand that this "eating the body of Christ" that deegan has been wasting time making fun of is precisely the point of the article below  ---   existence, being, becoming a new creature is never COMMANDED into existence!!!!    That is impossible.   We are birthed into existence and nurtured  (Christ --  the bread of life   ---   go ahead and make of it.   Those are the very thoughts of Jesus Christ) into maturity.    The works-salvationists on this forum  (including our Mormon friends   --   that's right, you [deegan, JT and DM]  and the Mormons only argue about different rule s and doctrines while refusing to see that your frame of reference is the same !!)  imply in the argumentation that obedience is the path to maturity when, in point of fact, such is not the case in any other ontological consideration.   If you are nurtured YOU WILL GROW UP no matter what.   Obedience of which you speak   has nothing to do with that process.  
 
 
JD
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 02:54:33 -0600
Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Jesus of the Bible

 
Judy writes  >  Then I would ask - What does this participation look like in a person's every day life? 
 
A right kind of obedience comes to mind. The truth is, Judy, you and certain others have mischaracterized our position so many times that you are now actually believing your own disinformation. I do not say that obedience is unimportant; neither have I ever; nor do I remember any of the other Trinitarians having said this. We do not dwell on sin, and we do not boast about our accomplishments -- but that does not mean that we do not care about obedience. Indeed we are called to obedience, and the commandments are the same, whether we are reading them and applying them or you are. The difference I see between obedience from our perspective and that of yours, is thus not one of action nearly so much as it is one of motive. And I happen to believ e that in our way of thinking, one comes much closer to a proper motivat ion for obedience than does one from yours. It is not fear of hell that moves us, or simply because "we're supposed to do it" that we obey -- and it is certainly not because we must do what Christ cannot. In fact, woe for even suggesting so! Talk about calling lightning bolts down from heaven! No, we have a seat at the Lord's table because he has placed us there. To quote a mutual friend of John, Lance and myself, "The real motive for obedience is grounded in relationship (emphasis mine). Obedience is the natural fruit of our relationship with our Father. When we come to really know him, we come to see that he loves us more than we love ourselves, and that he wants only what's best for us, and that he longs for our fulfillment with a greater passion than our own." Hence in participation with our Lord, we begin to see that obedience is not only right and loving, it is the onl y thing that makes good sense.
 
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus of the Bible

 
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:46:26 -0600 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 
It is not he who credits the Lord for his entire salvation who is "glorying" (i.e., boasting) but rather she who wants to take some of the credit herself, as in, "Jesus did His part ... but we have our part in this also, He can't take care of our part ..." 
27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,
28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are,
29 so that no man may boast before God.
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption,
31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
Ours is not a "do nothing stance", Judy; nor have we presented it as such. Rather it is as Lance stated: "We participate in that which He, the second Adam lived out from conception to ascension on our behalf."
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus of the Bible

1 Corinthians 1:30
Is what every believer should be presently walking in rather than glorying in from a "do nothing" stance of fear
of being accused of some kind of co-redemption attitude.  jt
 
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 13:30:27 -0600 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Judy writes  >  And Dave lest they forget you should also be aware that God has extremely bad eyesight so that he does not see any imperfection in these ppl with the eschatalogical salvation. All he can see is the "eternal son" - so this kind of christianity doesn't have to do anything but exist in their fallen state.  They will make it because of his faith, his righteousness, his obedience, and his resurrection. 
 
The main problem with all this is that this is NOT the Jesus of the Bible.
 
"But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God -- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption"
--1Corinthians 1.30
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus of the Bible

 
 
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 15:02:37 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
EVERY MAN, DAVID, IS IMPERFECT EVEN AFTER REDEMPTION ONLY THE 
REDEEMER IS
PERFECT, DAVID. We participate in that which He, the second Adam 
lived out
from conception to ascension on our behalf. Our 'imperfections' are 
visible
to ourselves and to those about us, though redeemed.
 

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
> Sent: July 05, 2005 14:24
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus of the Bible
>
>
> > DAVEH:  It seems to m e that your below non-religious examples are
> > illogical, DavidM.   Let me give you a n example.  If I were to ask
> you,
> > "Are you perfect before God?", you might answer from your
> perspective,
> > "Yes."
> >
> >     If on the other hand, I were to ask God, "Is DavidM is
> perfect?", he
> > might view it differently.
> >
> >     Do you see what I am getting at?  If you ask the guy who had
> the car
> > painted if it is perfect, while he may say "yes", the guy painting
> the
> > car may have another contrasting perspective.
> >
> >      God is not asking us if we are perfect, he is commanding us
> to be
> > such.  The question becomes what does perfection mean. 
> Fortunately, he
> > qualifi es it so that we don't have to worry about what or how man
> has
> > defined perfection.  As stated in Matthew, whatever perfection
> there is
> > in God, that is how he commanded us to become.
> >
> > David Miller wrote:
> >
> > >  Christianity has been enamored by Calvin's teachings
> > >and influence to portray every man as imperfect even after
> redemption.
> > >
> > >Look at the word "perfect" in non-religious contexts.  Someone
> eats a
> really
> > >good hamburger.  They exclaim, "That burger was perfect!  It
> could not
> have
> > >been made any better."   Someone pays someone to paint their car
> a
> certain
> > >color and has very exact requirements.  He picks the car up and
> the
> painter
> > >asks, "so, how do you like it?"  The reply, "it is perfect!"
> > >
> > >On and on, we can come up with examples like t his where we use
> the word
> > >perfect to mean that something is precisely according to our
> hopes and
> > >expectations, but when it comes to our morality and our walk with
> God,
> > >somehow the word "perfect" suddenly becomes taboo.  Why, nobody
> can claim
> > >that they truly walk without sinning against their neighbor! 
> This has
> more
> > >to do with our culture walking in apostasy toward God and our
> desire to
> > >excuse that apostasy than any change in the language of
> Scripture.  It
> has
> > >more to do with our departure from what the Word of God teaches
> us about
> our
> > >completeness and perfection in Christ than with any change in the
> meaning
> of
> > >the wo rd "perfect."
> > >
> > >Peace be with you.
> > >David Miller.
> > >
> > >------ ----
> > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
> you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
> > >
> > >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email
> to
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> have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> &g t; --
> >  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >  Dave Hansen
> >  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  http://www.langlitz.com
> >   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >  If you wish to receive
> >  things I find interesting,
> >  I maintain six email lists...
> >  JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
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> >
> >
> > ----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
> you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email
> to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you
> have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
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>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
> may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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>
 
 
 
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