IF prototokos means "biologicaly first-born" (Instead of PREEMINENT), then what does
Firstborn of death mean? Job 18:13
Firstborn of the poor? Is 14:30
First born of Creation has to do with Preeminance ove creation, as does:
Rev 3:14 beginning of the creation of God
uses the word arche (Beginning - ORIGIN)
Jesus took upon himself a different form than the "form" of God when he became a man. Therefore God is not in the same physical form as a man
Ph 2:6 Who, being in the form of God
Ph 2:7 took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men
He was the 1st born from the dead not the first to open the womb!
CONTEXT of Col 1:15 is easily found in Col1:18 it refers to PREMINANCE!
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
David was God's FIRSTBORN (HEAD) as far as the Kings of the earth
Ps 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him
PS 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
The word prototokos means "first in rank, preeminent one, heir."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have to say that I just do not understand why this passage is not a huge problem for the Mormon thinking of Jesus as a created being. I would think that anyone who read these words, back in, say AD 150, would come away with the idea that the Apostle believed that his lord and savior was something less that the Great God Almighty. Does "first born of all creation" offer problems to this eternal claim for Jesus? Of course. Are the problems solved by concluding that John chapter 1 did not say what it said? I think not.JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 04:38:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.In the beginning Jesus WAS (existed), He did not become.He was with God, He was not made by GodHe was God from the begining.He made ALL things
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DAVEH: Then it seems that something can have both a beginning and be eternal as well.
Lance Muir wrote:Can I have eternal life? YesHave I always had eternal life? NoLife began with the Word of God. It is sustained by God. Life, apart from God, has no intrinsic eternality (?)From: DaveSent: July 05, 2005 14:14Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of ChristDAVEH: I think another TTer mentioned (Izzy below) eternal life. Do you believe you can have eternal life, Lance? Have you always had eternal life, or does it begin at some point and then last forever thereafter?
Lance Muir wrote:Give us an example, DaveH.----- Original Message -----From: DaveSent: July 05, 2005 12:24Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of ChristDAVEH: ??? Cannot one who is eternal have a beginning?
Debbie Sawczak wrote:And by "not eternal", we mean "having a beginning". We agree our life in Christ has no end.Debbie> True, but you think He lied when He said we will have eternal life? iz
>-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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