Judy wrote: > Have patience and give him time, he is wearing > a lot of hats. I have no doubt that one of us will > change if we both determine to continue on to follow > the Lord.
Amen, Judy! Thank you for expressing the heart of hope. It is in this spirit that we follow our risen Lord together, knowing that we will change and be more conformed to Him who is Lord of us all. I have read your posts, but unfortunately do not have the time right now to address them. Following are a few observations: 1. I think the concept of original sin will be important for us to discuss in more detail. I think you still hang onto the Calvinistic / Roman Catholic viewpoint of men being born guilty in sin. From my perspective, while we are born with a sin nature, we are not born guilty. We are born in a physically depraved state, but physical depravity and moral depravity are two different things. We will need to discuss this more because obviously, Jesus was not born morally depraved or in an unholy state. If my saying that he was born with the same flesh as other men equates to you the idea that he was morally depraved or unholy, then we will never progress in understanding one another. 2. We have a semantic difference in that the word "flesh" to you means something different than it does to me. I take a more reductionistic approach to this. I see a sharp duality taught by Paul in Romans 7. You still read Romans 7 the way Calvin read it, as Paul describing his present Christian condition. I do not. I see Romans 7 as describing what man under the law and without the power of the Spirit of Christ faces because of the weakness of his flesh. My perspective of the duality of man is like that which Paul says, "it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." This duality is one thing that helps me perceive how Christ could have a sin nature in his flesh and yet not be unholy himself. I perceives two sources of iniquity in man: flesh and spirit. The soul is that which is between the two, and so the carnal man has a fleshly soul and a spiritual man has a spiritual soul. Men are defiled in both flesh and spirit when they come to Christ, and they may be completely purified in spirit but not in flesh, that is, not until the resurrection. Nevertheless, the sinful nature of the flesh does not inhibit them from walking in righteousness. This is where faith and walking in the spirit come in. So we do walk like Christ after we have received his spirit, still having a flesh that is physically depraved and has weakness and is a source of temptation, but having a spirit which is created anew, perfectly after him. 3. I do not perceive sanctification to be only progressive. There is a progressive aspect to it, but being brought into a state of righteousness whereby we no longer sin against God or men is not progressive. It is accomplished by the Spirit of Christ living within us, and so it can be no more progressive than the idea that one progressively receives the Spirit. One receives the Spirit of Christ in an instant, and from thence forth, he walks in holiness. That holiness then grows and increases, which is the progressive aspect. The one who is under the law is the one who progressively sins less and less, and unfortunately, will never arrive at that place where he never sins. The one in Christ is righteous by faith, the moment he believes. 4. Interestingly, Bill looks at man a little more holistically, more so than you do. This is one element that leads him to seeing mankind all being assumed in Christ without any faith on their part. I'm interested in discussing this more with him, but that does not mean that I embrace his viewpoint. It is as foreign to me as it is to you, so when you raise it as an objection to what I am saying, it makes further dialogue a little difficult. Can you just accept that I do not believe the same way as Bill on this? Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
