From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Judy wrote: > They had to receive the Word of God before being baptized - see the example of Philip and the Ethiopian > eunuch.
This is true, but the Ethiopian you mention did not say the sinner's prayer. He asked to be baptized. This passage tells me several things: 1) Philip did not tell him to bow his head and ask Jesus to come into his heart; otherwise, he would not have said, "if thou believest with all thine heart." jt: If you look at the passage of scripture the Ethiopian was reading and not understanding Isaiah 53:7,8 it is all about the sacrifice for our transgression. The man had been to Jerusalem to worship so apparently he had enough background to put it all together I don't believe he was under the assumption that he was being saved by baptism; I would say that he received the Word, the Holy Spirit gave him understanding and that this was a baptism of repentance. 2) the point of his public confession of Christ was water baptism rather than an altar call where he says the sinner's prayer. Reading earlier in the chapter, Acts 8:12 says that when they believed Philip, they were baptized. In modern times, it does not often work that way in Protestant churches. What happens is that when the believe, they are led in a prayer. "Close your eyes and repeat after me..." Baptism is usually not even mentioned, so that new converts often go years attending church without being baptized. In my opinion, this is an over-reaction to Roman Catholicism's emphasis on the saving aspect of baptism through the proper authority in order to be saved. jt: Maybe so. Last night we were discussing a church our family used to attend in VaBch which would preach the Word, call sinners to repentance by beliving on Jesus and baptise them after the service (right away) believing for the baptism of Jesus in the Holy Spirit also and these people would come up out of the water speaking in tongues. Last night I met a girl who graduated from a High School that was situated at the back of this church. She got curious and went with some of her friends and this was her experience back when she was 19yrs old. She is now md with a 14yr old and a 4yr old and the conversion stuck - she and her husband are pressing on and raising godly sons. The point is not that the sinner's prayer is wrong or bad. The point is that leading someone to salvation through saying the sinner's prayer is not a Biblical tradition. You and Izzy claim to only believe what you read in the Scriptures. If you have ever led someone to salvation by having them say a prayer, you did not get this tradition from the Scriptures. jt: How does one repent and commit publicly aside from prayer? Especially when there is no baptismal or water handy. I think this is straining at gnats because God has honored it, especially at Billy Graham and other evangelistic rallies. The closest passage I know of would be the tax collector of Luke 18:13-14, but nobody there led this man in a prayer. It came from his heart. The Biblical tradition of how to lead someone into faith in Christ is to bring them to the waters of baptism if they believe with all their heart. I'm talking about the Biblical model for how a believer would lead another believer into becoming a disciple of Christ. Do you agree? jt: That may be the best way David but there is so much error associated with baptism because of the false teachings of the RCC which is probably why (as you have pointed out) some wait and disciple ppl a little longer. Judy wrote: But then some were baptized without a heart change - see Simon the magician who even after being baptized wanted to pay money to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Today if someone rebuked a new believer as Peter did there they would be run out of church; today they would just love them and put them in the choir. So very true and so very sad. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
