Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

[Bill Taylor]

jt: Bill, I don't see it as ridicule to say what the Bible says.    The Bible doesn't say anything about spiritual death. That is something you are adding. Why don't you treat yourself with the scrutiny you exact on others? Why don't you say what the Bible says?   jt: Only disciples were being called to follow the son at this point (Matt 8:22, Luke 9:60) - Whom was Jesus calling when he said, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead"? Do you deny that he was calling this person to follow him? And were only certain Jews supposed to love God with all their hearts, souls, minds, and strength, and the rest were exempt? What do you suppose this Jew was not doing when he refused to follow God's Son? You don't have to answer these questions, Judy; they are rhetorical: one of those confusing linguistic constructs. IN OTHER WORDS, they are so obvious as to not require answers. Also I would like to point out that the same _expression_ is used in the parable of the Prodigal Son who was dead in the pigpen and returned to life after a change of heart (now is alive).  It is also used in Ephesians 2:1 and in 1 Timothy 5:6. Judy, you are the one who made a big issue out of distinguishing things before the cross and after the cross. I simply satisfied your criterion and asked questions pertaining to a time prior to the cross. Yes, "dead" is used of people on both sides of the cross. However after the cross it is used in a past tense, i.e, you were dead. The cross stands as that which gave them life. Bill   ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death I have not one time claimed that Jesus' statement pertained to physically dead people burying the dead. This is your confusion, Judy -- not mine. If you are so base as to draw that conclusion, how are you competent to draw any conclusions?   Bill  ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:57 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death     On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 23:13:18 -0600 "Bill Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Mar 12.30 'And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. I told Izzy that I thought there was a spiritual element included in Jesus' statement: "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." But I also told her that I thought it was not just directed at the spirit aspect of personhood: "those who reject Christ are doing so with their entire being -- mind, body, soul, and spirit." To which Judy responded with ridicule, implying instead that Jesus' statement was only in reference to the spiritual aspect, i.e., it was a reference to spiritual death and nothing else.* jt: Bill, I don't see it as ridicule to say what the Bible says.  There is no way a physically dead person can get out there and dig a hole in order to bury another physically dead person now is there?  In scripture this concept of death is that of being separated from God because of sin which as I have been saying is what happened to A&E in the garden. Anything else is confusion. Judy, if first century Jews prior to the cross were called to love God with all their hearts, souls, minds, and strength, what do you suppose they were not doing when they refused to follow his Son? jt: Only disciples were being called to follow the son at this point (Matt 8:22, Luke 9:60) - Also I would like to point out that the same _expression_ is used in the parable of the Prodigal Son who was dead in the pigpen and returned to life after a change of heart (now is alive).  It is also used in Ephesians 2:1 and in 1 Timothy 5:6. judyt   Bill   * When He says "death" he means "death" and since the death Adam experienced that day was not physical, nor was it alzheimers (brain or soul death).  What do you suppose it was? ... The dead burying their dead is not speaking of physical or soulish death since they were able to dig a hole and had presence of mind enough not to let a dead body just lay around.