Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

[knpraise]

Since this "spiritual condition" you speak of includes the physical body  -  the correct word would be "dead"  or "death.'   Look, what Bill is trying to get across is that aside from the metaphorical language used to teach biblical concepts, the reality is this:  there is not a dual reality when it comes to man.  He is mind, body/soul, and spirit.   That is what he is.  The three cannot be separated and survive.   THAT is why the physical body will be raised  -----------  because there is no life for man apart from the three and no eternal life apart from God.   "That which is flesh" and that "which is spirit"  IS A STATE OF MIND   (Rom 8:5), 

 

You are using a non-bliblical word (which is fine, in and of itself) to express an dualism that is not taught in scripture at all, which is not fine.    Many argue that man is given choices in life that are "spiritual" and "non-spiritual."  ALL  choices are "spiritual"  because man cannot be separated from such.   As far as I am concerned  (and Bill might not agree with this -  input please), your use of "spiritual" is fine as long as you do not mean to imply a dualism that embraces an autonomy in each of its two ontological states -- body and soul living together until judgment day.   We are one being, ontologically speaking, and nothing in scripture denies this or teaches other wise.  

 

Since man is a spirit filled being  (John 3:21;  Phil 2:12-13) he destroys himself when he tries to live his life apart from God  ---------------  such is impossible and death is its only result.  This is not some liberal teaching that takes us away from God  !!!   Such a conclusion is thoughtless bordering.  Rather, it puts God in man and offers man a choice  -  to accept this gifted presence and live,   or reject what cannot be rejected and die.  This teaching insists upon repentance  (a change of mind), preaching to the lost that they must stop thinking they are autonomous AND ACTING OUT THAT THOUGHTLESSNESS, and accept what is given to them and live as if LIFE were an integral part of who they are because tht is the way it is.    

 

 

JD

 

 

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 02:57:51 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

And since it is the spiritual condition under discussion, this would be "spiritually dead" right JD?

 

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:27:09 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

That would be the word "dead" or the phrase " dead already"  -- 

kind of like your discussion with Bill at this point. Jd 

 

From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Izzy asks  >  Do you have a ?biblical term? that expresses man?s spiritual condition prior to receiving Christ as Savior and Lord? 

 

Okay, I will address your question and then try to summarize my position. I chose not to answer your question for the following reason: implicit in your wording is the assumption that we can separate the spirit aspect of personhood from the other aspects, the whole of which integrates to form what we call "persons," and that we can then address that aspect in abstention of the others. I do not accept that premise as it relates to our discussion, and therefore could not answer your question in the form it was structured.  In other words, I stumped you, huh? J

 

When the biblical authors speak to living subjects of their present or prior state of death, they are speaking metaphorically of their entire person; e.g., when Paul writes that his readers had been dead in trespasses and sin, he is speaking of their entire state of being and not just about their spiritual condition. The spirit aspect of their personhood was no more dead and no more alive than the rest of their being. So you think a person cannot be spiritually dead until they are physically dead? If a person is physically alive, he is also spiritually alive??? He is speaking metaphorically about the hopelessness and helplessness of their entire former existence in th e depravity of their fallen state. I mplicit in his use of the term "dead" is the conveyance that they could do nothing of themselves to remedy the fact that they were doomed in that former state.  Agreed, of course. 

 

I hope this will satisfy your request and trust that we have pretty much exhausted the need to continue this discussion.  No, not really, but I think you must be tuckered out, Bill.  I think if I keep pointing out the holes in your theory, so to speak, you might get either really angry or have to give up and agree with me once in a while.  J

 

Thank you for your patience and the charity with which you conducted yourself. It is a pleasure to converse with you when we are not nipping at each others heels. God bless you,  Absolutely likewise, Bill, and thanks, as it was enjoyable.  izzy

 

Bill

 

 

                                              judyt
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
               are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
               even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Corinthians 3:18)