David Miller wrote: >> Bill is not saying that you have read Augustine. >> He is saying that you have been influenced by >> Augustine and have adopted some of his viewpoints >> without realizing it. How? Because you live in this world >> and have grown up around ministers and school systems >> that have been touched by him in one way or another.
Judy wrote: > Then he is saying the same as what Lance would harp on > constantly which is that noone can know what they think > they know (if it conflicts with his doctrine) which contradicts > scripture itself because it is written "The spiritual man judges > ALL things yet he himself is rightly judged by noone" (1 Cor 2:15) This would only be true if learning ONLY happened in that way. I'm certainly not saying that. Do you recognize this "ambient" effect of our culture which teaches us things and gives us our perspective? Does it have ANY influence in your life whatsoever? Judy wrote: > I don't know much of anything about Benedict Arnold, in > fact I just had to ask my husband who he was. Guy Fawkes > would mean more to me since I was raised in the British system \ > and we would have a bonfire on Guy Fawkes day. Ok, so you have a different culture. Can you understand how my perspective of the word "Benedict" might be different than either you or the new Pope because of my culture? Guy Fawkes is not somebody I know of from culture, but only from history books. Perhaps you have a perspective about him that is negative from your culture? Do people in your culture sling his name around like they do "Benedict Arnold" here in the United States? David Miller wrote: >> The point is that Augustine has so influenced our culture and >> society, that many of his viewpoints become ours through >> secondary sources. You may never have read him or even >> heard of him, but there are many ways in which his views could >> have come down to you. ... The third concept is, of course, that >> the Holy Spirit revealed the truth to you just like he perhaps did >> to Augustine. Judy wrote: > Are you kidding? At the church I grew up in we heard nothing like > that and I personally did not begin to study to show myself approved > to God until after I was "born again" The point is that there are concepts that have been thrust upon you by others that find their way into your mind. You attend a Presbyterian church. Whether you realize it or not, your mind is probably bombarded often with the teachings of both Augustine and Calvin. Do you truly not recognize this? The Bible says: Colossians 2:8 (8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Does not this passage indicate that philsophy and traditions of men impact upon us? Does it not warn us of this effect? Clearly this work is upon us whether we like it or not, or the Scriptures would not warn us to beware of it. Judy wrote: > What other way is there to explain what took place > in the garden David? Adam did not die physically for > 960 more years so unless God lied or changed his mind > as JD claims and did not follow through - then Adam > died but not physically. One other way to understand this is that he was delivered over to the spirit of death on that day. He died, not in the sense that he dropped dead immediately, but in the sense that he was delivered over to the power of death. He became mortal and subject to sin, sickness, disease, and death. Have you ever heard of a Jewish man disowning his son who converted to Christianity? What does he say? You are dead. You are no longer my son. You are no longer in my life. You are dead. Does he mean that his son literally dropped dead? No, he means that his relationship with him is over. Did Adam die spiritually that day? Yes, in a metaphoric way, he did. Did Adam die physically that day? Yes, in a metaphoric way, he did. This is all that I am saying. Judy wrote: > Well yes, that is the way it works. Both Adam and the > creation were cursed at the same time and the curse is > always implemented by the powers of darkness who only > work death and destruction. They never bless. Actually > biology responds to psychology and psychology responds > to spirituality. In a spiritual person, you are right about biology responding to psychology and psychology responding to spirituality. However, in a carnal person, the reverse is true. The psychology (soul) responds to the body and the spirit responds to the psychology. Judy wrote: > Prior to Adams sin noone would have wanted to stab anyone's > heart Murder was not a reality until after the fall and neither was > mortality. Well, if you don't like the hypothetical, how about Adam falling off of a high cliff? The point is that Adam cannot die unless he is mortal. If God jumped off a cliff, guess what. He would not die. He is immortal. If Adam jumped off a cliff before he had sinned, he would not have died. That is my point. So on the day he sinned, he died, meaning, he became mortal. In God's mind, his death was a done deal on that day. David Miller wrote: >> What I do not understand is spiritual inheritance, or whether >> spiritual inheritance even exists in the sense of being passed >> on from parent to offspring. Judy wrote: > It's right there in God's Law. The curse follows from four > to ten generations to those that hate Him and blessing to > the thousandth generation to those who love Him and walk > in His ways. That is, if we believe God means what > He says and says what He means. What particular references do you have in mind? I think you might be reading things into it that are not there. Curses certainly follow those who sin, and they will fall upon their children also, and likewise blessings do too, but this does not mean that they are inherited, as in, transferred through some method into the children. This is at the heart of our difference in understanding Jesus Christ and his birth of Mary. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
