deegan and I are clearly not in the same boat BUT. I do think you are missing the point he is making on this, DH. blaine has hung his hat (not entirely, of course) on Mormorn growth rate
DAVEH: I didn't quite see it that way. If Blaine believes that growth rate alone reflects truth, I'd say he is using some pretty screwed up logic as well. Perhaps he can clarify what he was saying. Looking at the posts below in this thread, I was correcting what I perceived to be outdated material you submitted, and Blaine was updating the information even more. Relative to these posts, Blaine made no comment about the relationship between the growth rate and its trueness. Kevin pulled some quotes from other posts that made it seem like (and Kevin implied that) Blaine was saying that the LDS Church is true because of its rapid growth. I don't think that is what Blaine said or implied at all. But....let's let him respond, as we (you, Kevin and me) have our biases that affect our thinking processes.
Yes, I agree. Blaine should speak for Blaine, in the final analysis. But, do you see how some of us hear Blaine saying that growth (to a degree ) is evidence of God's approval and the ultimate goal (set by God, apparently) that the Mormon Church (equated to the "kingdom of God") will establish the Kingdom of God throughout the world is irresistible, i.e. (Blainer) The figures don't lie. The rate of growth for the Mormon Church exceeds even the Moslems in the US. Zion will flourish, and the Kingdom of God will be established by the Mormon Church. It is just a matter of time ?????
By the way - I do not see the Kingdom of God and the Church as being the same, biblically speaking, anymore than I confuse "sovereign rule and authority" with "assemblage."
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and sees the Mormon religion as just that - a religion.
DAVEH: Do you not find it interesting that the LDS Church is classified amongst Christian churches in this study? Do you suppose it is considered as a Christian church in contrast to what some TTers believe?
I see many within orthodoxy extending the right hand of fellowship and willing to consider this church as a denomination of the Larger Church. I do not see the same consideration coming from the Mormon Church.
I was thinking that the claim was that Mormonism is Christian. Such does not appear to be the case . Blaine writes: Mormonism, or the religion of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A rather disappointing comment.
DAVEH: Without knowing the context of what else he said at the same time, I can't offer an opinion one way or the other on this one. I don't see where such a statement alone would suggest that Mormonism is not Christian.
My concern is this: that these words inidcated that Mormonism considers itself the ONLY (true) Christians.
And when we are talking about growth rates, world wide, the Christian faith (excluding Mormonis - apparently by thei r own admission) is growing at the rate of 3,000 per hour .
DAVEH: How many of those do you suppose can be attributed to the RCC birth rate?
Considerable -- and in much the same way as Mormon growth rates (?).
Kingdom rule has already been established.
DAVEH: Such the RCC folks believe. They just don't quite understand why you (Protestants) felt the need to leave the nest.
It had to do with grace verses works salvationism.
Grace is the order of the day and the "right church" was never The Divine Concern except that this assemblage be CONSIDERED RIGHT through and because of Christ. The notion that the church was initially right (Book of Acts ) and that it fell away is simply not historically accurate (Book of Acts).
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, John. IF there was not a falling away, there would be no need for a restitution of all things, as I see it.
You have kinda of lost me, here. All of us can read about the First Church in the Book of Acts -- a church full of Jews unwilling to break with any of the Law, it's requirements and traditions, while, at the same time, accepting the message of Christ as Son of God. The First Church could not be any further off base than it was a month after Pentecost Day. Seeds of dnominationalism are recorded in script no more than 30 years following Pentecost. What was not effected by this missing of the mark was the preaching of the gospel of unmerited redemption by the apostles. That is what changed in the falling away -- and the Mormon Church certainly did not re-establish that teaching.
And your debate with deegan
DAVEH: I don't recall doing much debating with Kevin recently. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else, though that hardly seems possible.
I refer to what has been going on between the two of you over the past year and half.
and other works-salvationists on TT is only a debate over which rules are the right rules. The primary theology is the same and the method of institutional purity is identical -- x those who disagree -- damn such passages as Romans 14.JD
