John wrote:
> You have (twice now) gone out of your way
> to present me as a dunce.
I have done no such thing, John. If you feel you have come out looking like
a dunce, don't blame me. I am trying real hard NOT to make you look that
way.
Oh, Mr Dave !! LOL . Your continued effort will, someday, bring you success.
John wrote:
> The least you can do, in view of my perceived inabilities,
> is to work with me on the matter. You're the one with the
> PhD - not me. And I must bow to that accomplishment
> (for the time being).
I have no Ph.D. Hmmmmmmmmmmm That was made up from someone north of us who was scorning
me. TruthTalk is meant to be a place where we are all on equal footing,
where the person with a third grade education can talk with the person with
5 Ph.D.'s . None of us should be bowing to the accomplishments of each
other, but rather working together on an equal footing, discussing our
insights as we see them. You put way too much stock in formal education
with this paragraph. You are much more trained formally in theology and
Bible than I am. It saddens me that I have to keep reminding you of how
ignorant I am in this area. Scholar ?? Oh well. I have never had any kind of religion class in
my life. I read books, and I talk with others. That's it. You have the
advantage over me.
I will leave this alone save for this comment - the PhD thingy came from something
you said. I am not the only one who thought you claimed a Phd. But, enough said.
John wrote:
> You are the scholar, here, not me
John, a scholar is just a student. I do not allow my lack of formal
education in Theology to make me feel inferior in mind or ability.
Funny, I thought you just expressed that inferiority immediately above.
That's
all you see. I'm not afraid of the Ivy League graduates like Joseph Thayer
who has some credentials after his name. Jesus taught me not to seek for
such positions and I trust him to teach me what I need to know in these
areas.
As for speaking in tongues, I believe such is the evidence of being baptized
with the Holy Spirit, just as your Foursquare denomination believes. I do
not believe that speaking in tongues is the evidence of being born again by
the Spirit of God. Well, we can put that idea to bed. Byt the way, only some in
Foursquare believe in the "evidence of tongues."
As for the atonement covering past sins, I believe this to be true
concerning our experience of it. If a Christian were covered for future
sins, then when he sinned, he would not experience any guilt or consequence
whatsoever. In my experience as well as most honest people I know, if they
sin after coming to Christ and experiencing his cleansing grace, they
experience guilt and the sense of fellowship lost. There is Biblical
evidence for this too (in 1 John). None of this means that they lose their
salvation the moment they sin. This is a complicated subject that I do not
care to digress toward right now.
How is it we are descendants of Adam if mutations happen? Well, mutations
don't completely destroy the entire genetic code. They effect various
alleles in various ways. They account for how the black man looks different
from the Asian who looks different from the Anglo-Saxon, even though all are
descended from Adam. Well, ok.
Why are the mutations of our bodies not reversed immediately upon being born
again? There is a long answer to this that I don't have time to get into
right now. How about we start with the acceptance that the Scriptures teach
this to be the case. Did you experience any changes in your physical body
when you were born again? Did any birth marks or moles suddenly disappear?
Are you being serious?
As for the dissimilarities, John, perhaps that illustrates why I don't
understand you. The context is the fall of man, of Adam, and you spoke from
this context without this. How? Such makes no sense to me. So, when you
asked for my concise summary, I inserted what I thought was necessary to
make some sense out of it. Maybe now you understand why I did not accept
your invitation to correct you. You wear me out with this attack, attack,
accuse, accuse, attitude. David - when are you going to figure out that when you
respond to me with words of insult (and telling me that I write so poorly as to
be completely unintelligible IS the very illustration of being insulting ) you will
inherit a continuing discussion from one who has his back up. I have learned not to go
ballistic. I no longer have those moments when I wish we lived next door to each other,
just for twenty minutes or so. You have been as insulting of me as it gets with you, these
past couple of days - and I have been able to keep my butt firmly planted
in the chair
at all times --------------------- a major improvement.
Now - one last question. I am certain that your fellowship believes that baptism of the
Spirit with evidence of tongues IS the moment of the New Birth. You apparently do not
agree. When does "new birth" take place, in your opinion?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how
you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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