Thank you, David, I am adding this to my meagre
bank of information on the subject. You know more than I do about some of these
things. There are only two other cases of bipolar disorder that I have
encountered, neither of them as close to me as my father-in-law; one person
was a church acquaintance, the other I worked in the same office with
for six years. In both cases their condition seemed to be very successfully
dealt with by medication, at least whenever I was around them. In
fact, when I think of mentally ill people I have known, they don't
immediately come to mind the way my father-in-law does. But I do get a
second-hand impression that, as you say, bipolar disorder is often very hard to
treat, that his case is not unusual in that respect. He seemed dopey when
medicated; they did not.
Just one important correction: I didn't say "if the
brain is involved", I said "certain parts of the brain", by which I was trying
(perhaps inaccurately) to refer to those mental illnesses or forms of brain
damage that result in antisocial behaviour or a seeming impairment
of moral judgment.
Also, about the last sentence in that
post: I was really addressing two separate but related ideas. The
second one was the idea that a physical condition (even a migraine) can
interfere with one's freedom to some extent. I don't think I handled it
well, so forget it for now.
Debbie
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest
of us
> involved, if that is what you mean by "one-to-one association."
>
> As an example, strokes cause brain damage by a easily understood organic
> mechanism. Oxygen is deprived from brain cells which die and cannot be
> replaced. The areas of the brain that die control certain known abilities,
> such as the ability to speak, or the ability to understand language, etc. A
> person affected by a stroke might be interpreted by some without such
> biological knowledge to be demon possessed because they stammer and cannot
> speak, or they cannot understand anyone speaking to them whereas before they
> could. In the Scriptures, however, when we examine those who were sick of
> the palsy, we do not see Jesus casting demons out of them. The deaf and the
> mute were sometimes helped by casting out devils, but not those who were
> sick of the palsy.
>
> In our materialistic culture, we have a tendency to underestimate the role
> of evil spirits. Most of us, if we are honest with ourselves, have an
> aversion to casting out devils. I will probably always remember the first
> time the Spirit of God told me to cast the devil out of a girl. I was at a
> Bible study in someone's home. I looked across the room at my friend, and
> the Spirit distinctly said to me, "Cast the devil out of her." I wrestled
> with this. How could I do this? What would she think? How rude I would
> appear. She might be offended that I would even suggest such a thing. I
> had dozens of reasons why I should not do it. But, it soon appeared that
> she was very troubled in that she could not sit in the Bible study. She
> went off to another room with a friend for awhile, discussing something with
> her, I know not what. I could not resist the Spirit any longer. I went
> looking for her. I told her that I needed to talk to her and asked her if
> she would step outside with me. You see, I was so embarassed and unsure of
> all this, I guess I did not want anyone else in the Bible study to see. I
> asked her what was going on, and if she was having any problems. She
> started right in on her problems, but the more she talked, the less I wanted
> to hear any of it. I finally interupted her and said, "The devil has messed
> up your mind and I just want to break his power over you right now, ok?"
> She nodded, and I laid my hands on her head and said in a loud voice, "You
> foul spirit which has wrecked this poor girl's life, I command you in the
> name of Jesus to come out of her right now." I spoke it as a strong rebuke,
> not speaking to the girl, but to the spirit within her. She immediately
> screamed and fell to the ground writhing like a snake. I looked around the
> neighborhood wondering if any neighbors were going to come out of their
> homes and call the police. She was delivered within minutes and the peace
> of God came all over her as she wept with the joy of the Lord.
>
> I tend to side with Judy's perspective on this, that spirits are much more
> active than most of us give them credit for. This does not mean that we
> must always deal with them through casting out devils. However, when they
> gain a stronghold over a person's life, they must be dealt with in a much
> different way than just praying for healing.
>
> At a Wednesday night church meeting more than 20 years ago, at the end of
> service, a girl was having a psychotic episode right in church. Her hands
> tensed up and she was greatly troubled in her mind. More than fifty people
> in the church, gathered around her to pray. The more they prayed, the more
> this girl was troubled. Soon, as I was looking at this and asking the Lord
> what was happening, the Spirit said that everyone was worshipping the power
> of the devil here, and that somebody needed to take authority over this
> demon. I was too timid to do this myself with the pastor and the associate
> pastor there, so I went up to the associate pastor and said, "what are we
> waiting for? Somebody needs to take authority and cast this devil out." He
> said he was waiting on the senior pastor, so I went up to him and asked to
> speak with him. We left the sanctuary and went into the hall. I told him
> that this was a demon and that somebody needed to take authority over him,
> and if he did not do it, I would. He weighed the things I said to him and
> then went in and took authority over the devil. His power was broken and
> all was fine.
>
> The point is that sometimes the devil takes advantage, and praying for
> healing or help is the wrong approach. Sometimes we must take authority
> over spirits and tread upon them. Other times, we minister healing.
> Discernment is needed to deal with these issues, and experience leads us to
> deal with these problems in the right way.
>
> As for bipolar disorder / schizophrenia, nobody in medical science
> understands what it is or how to treat it. Treatment is always masking the
> symptoms, never is it a cure. Drugs like Haldol, Lithium, etc. control the
> problems by treating the symptoms, not by curing the problem. The term
> "chemical imbalance" is used flippantly and without direct knowledge.
> Therefore, in most or perhaps even all cases, I believe that demonic
> activity is involved.
>
> I certainly agree with you that when we "don't know" then we should not make
> assumptions, but I don't think that "thinking the best of someone" is
> dismissing the idea that they might be under spiritual attack by evil
> spirits. All of us are attacked by evil spirits. Even Jesus was. Just
> because we recognize demonic activity does not mean that we are thinking bad
> about the person. Please reconsider your last sentence. :-)
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Debbie Sawczak
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>
>
> I am thinking that a one-to-one association between demonic activity and
> conditions affecting certain parts of the brain is a mistake.
>
> Where these conditions can be adequately explained by observable physical
> imbalances, malfunctions, damage, or whatever, why would one ascribe them,
> as a category, to demons? I have no doubt that such physical dysfunction or
> damage can be initiated by demons, but must it be in every case of the
> disorder, or even in most cases? That is, if some cases of schizophrenia are
> actually demonic possession or oppression, must that be typical? Demons can
> probably cause eczema and bowel cancer too. As for healings, God can heal
> any condition miraculously, but his doing so (no matter the words of the
> prayer) is not in itself evidence that the condition was caused by demons,
> even though the healing has spiritual significance.
>
> I think we should not be in haste to chalk stuff up to demons, nor to
> conclude that a mentally ill person has been spiritually weak or negligent,
> has been giving footholds to the devil, or needs to repent. It becomes a way
> of blaming the individual or casting aspersions on her spiritual integrity.
>
> It is also a way of denying that we are intrinsically physical beings.
> Though not reducible to chemicals and tissue, let's face it, if the
> chemicals or tissue are messed up, we are disabled to just that extent,
> whether it is colour blindness or PMS, diabetes or dementia, arthritis or
> bipolar disorder. Disability limits the choices open to us. What exactly is
> the extent to which it does so in each case? We don't know. Not knowing, we
> believe the best of people.
>
> Debbie
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
