Re: [TruthTalk] Blessing vs Curses

[Judy Taylor]

This is how it all began JD - you sent an article on cancer attached to the following:

I am sending this to TT as an illustration of a Christian having to deal with a physical issue that some would credit to a demon spirit.  Judy seems to think that any "evil" is the result of a demon  (i.e. "demon lust").   I am thinking that such a general definition of a "demon" might prevent some from identifying a true demon possession.  JD

 

So how did we get from cancer, lust, and demons to "legalism"?  I'm the one being grossly misrepresented here

by you and Gary who also appears obsessed with legalism....

 

 

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:02:46 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You are the one challenging my post, Judy.   And when I reply to your challenge, a post that grossly misrepresented what I actually said, you cut and run as usual.   Once again  --   the legalist that I oppose is one who insists on her interpretation of the biblical  message, argues that this interpretation (read: understanding) is inspired (read:cannot possibly be wrong) and then insists that others believe the way she believes or they  are kicked out  (ala the judge in the Terry Shivo case)  or marked as a heretic. 

 

If you are not guilty of such nonsense, don't take it personal.   I neither named you nor Terry.   What is your definition of a legalist  ......................   or do you not have a definition? 

 

The rich young ruler misses my point altogether.  I am not talking about what Jesus did in establishing The Faith.   I am talking about what some of His disciples do.   The only concern Christ had in His garden prayer  (John 17) for the 21st century church was for unity  --  the very concern that is trampled under foot by the ruling class in the church.  

 

The classic, In His Steps, has a church fully involved with the personal Christ as Lord, a church that knows it cannot succeed without offering full honor to the decisions of those who claim the relationship. 

 

JD

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:22:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blessing vs Curses

I think I should let this go JD because I haven't a clue what you are about here or how you always seem to get from

whatever we are discussing to "legalism" so consistently.  Yes Jesus healed ppl, this is what he came to do but

ATST he told them to sin no more lest a worse thing come upon them which reinforces what is written in Deut ie

that sin and sickness are linked.  As for the rich young ruler, he had a sinful heart attitude of greed are you saying

that I do also??  jt 

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:29:43 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I am talking about legalists, Terry  ----------   not "all of us."   

 

jt: So IYO it is legalism to take the Word of God at face value and believe what it says JD?

 

I neither said the above nor do I believe such.  One thing I have noticed over the years, is that legalists will change the wording of a brother or embellish his/her comments and then get rid of them or curse them in some way.   You have taken the first step  --  accusing me of saying something I did not say..   Read my post. 

I asume you question my comments beginning with "And you ask why I think y ou and others  ....."   

You assume "scanty information" when, in poitn of fact,  I have been fighting legalism for nearly 40 years now.

 

jt: Then you must be fighting yourself JD; being obedient to God's Word is not legalism.

 

Personal obedience to God's Word is not what I am talking about -- but how could you know this is since you obviously have not read my post?  

 

Legalism is the single beggest problem effecting the church and its history goes back to the very first days of the church.   What I said about how a legalist thinks is right on, even I do say so myself !! 

 

jt: Nobody on TT is encouraging others to put themselves under the Levites in this generation JD. You

are imagining things.

 

What are you talking about?  I did not mention the Levitical law and the NT epistles do not distinguish between the Levitical and the Moasical. 

 

I was a legalist for years but not one by nature.  Many of my friends are legalists.   A legalist, in by book, is one who requires of others what he, himself, holds to be true.  

 

jt: Then Jesus was a legalist because he had this requirement; one that the rich young ruler was unwilling to

meet along with his followers who left Him in John 6 when they learned what covenant with Him involved.

 

Until you have sold all that you have, your argument above is worthless. 

 

That statement has a couple of limitations.   First, it concerns itself with "fellowship."  " ...  one who requires of others .."  indetermi ning continued fellowship.   And, secondly, it does not include faith in and of Christ. 

 

jt: Faith in and of Christ has certain requirements - Jesus Himself linked sin and sickness. He healed the man at

Bethesda and told him to go and sin no more lest a worse thing come upon Him.  Same with the woman caught

in adultery - "God and sin no more" 

 

Jesus will always ask us to "sin no more."   But His blessings were bestowed BEFORE the request was made .

 

In other words, the "definition" assumes that we have named the name of Christ in some meaningful way.   I do not know it you do this.  But I do know of two or three on this forum who do --  hense the word "others." 

 

jt: Are we including Jesus with these?

 

Of course not.  

 

A legalist is the enemy of unity and I have no respect for them at all.  

Intolerance is not to be tolerated !!!  JD

 

jt: How ironic.  Well I guess it all depends what one is willing to unify around.  If it's doing your own thing - then go

for it - but I for one will never be unifying around that with you.

 

Actually a legalist is the very person who "does their own thing."   It is they who have their own pet doctrines.  It is they who refuse to put their rules of fellowship into writing.  It is they who want to control others rather than depending upon the Living Christ and His workings in the inner man.  

 

 

Jd

 

 

From: Terry Clifton <wabbits1234@earthlink.net>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:33:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blessing vs Curses

Wow!  Amazing!  You got all that about all of us from one comment from Judy.  Which gift enables you to discern these things so accurately with such scanty informatiom from which to draw a conclusion?
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

lust in the "category" of SIN, not demonic possession.  Why not spell out, plainly,what your rules ("categories") are concerning the various levels of discomfort  --  from curse to sin to demonic possession and what is recognized as a part of these categories.   I don't see it in my bible studies.

And you ask why I think you and others are legalists.   Only a legalist would even think this way, IMO

.I know that I do not look for lists or formulas.   the "nine spiritual gifts" is not a complete list  --  but legalists treat that list as if it were intended to be a definitive statement on what is available in terms of "gifts."  And so we have the theology of a legalist  --  steeped in the "rational" and logical, full of lists and formula's and d ispensations and the like.  

 

 

 

JD