Re: [TruthTalk] The Fall

Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:56:23 -0700

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:56:58 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It is funny to see just how far you and Judy will go to avoid giving a specific answer to most questions presented to you. 
 
What is the purpose for your pursuit of these "specific answers" from Kevin and myself JD?  Isn't scripture specific
enough for you?
 
No point in pursuing the pointless.  Anyone care to have a real discussion  ???  I am still working on the "fall" of man.   Man is created out of the dust of the earth and returns to same when he dies.  He was created as a mortal  -  thus the tree of life is found in the garden.   I assume they ate of that tree up until the time they sinned or there was no point to the tree being there except for the story teller to reveal that A&E were driven from the garden because of the tree and what it offered. 
 
Well JD we've parted ways already.  You think it's a story.  I think it is the Word of God.  You apparently think the tree had literal fruit on it.  I believe the fruit was a certain kind of wisdom and that the serpent presented fruit from the other tree.
 
The accounting of their temptation-to-sin reflects the very same process as exists in our lives.  
 
Sure it does and it happens every day right here on TT when the same old voice whispers "hath God said?"
 
There is no indication within the text that their nature or essence changed. 
 
Of course there is .. death which is something they had never known entered the idyllic picture and they died the day they ate... that day. So how do you wrap your logic around that?
 
So why should I conclude that the fall included more than the record of the first sin event. 
 
The soul that sinneth it shall die.  The one who lives in and for pleasure is dead while they live; it's the language of
scripture JD.  God wrote it by His Spirit and his ways and thoughts are both higher than ours and Aristotles.
 
Virtually everyone I know and respect thinks there is more to the fall than the sin event.   Why? 
 
Are you going to BSF this year JD?  The subject is Genesis and we had our first meeting of the year today which was soo good.  They state very clearly that the Word of God is unchanging whereas Science is constantly changing; an
excellent point.
 
I get a little nervous when I realize that I am the only one who thinks a particular thing.   Help.  JD 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Musical Confusion - Noone knows least of all Dylan himself

Try reading the posts. Answer posted earlier.....
Consider your own historical allegiance to error and wishy washy winds of doctrine


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can't answer the question, either?  
 
Whatever. 
 
Your allegiance to division among the brethren has got to be heart breaking for the Lord.
 
 
 
 
 
Jd 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:51:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Musical Confusion - Noone knows least of all Dylan himself

Better to have divisions than evil uniformity!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
do you believe that there is a "judgmentalism" that is sinful?  If so, how do you define this  "judgmentalism."   Apparently JT cannot  come up with a definition.   Are we so divided, here on TT,  that we cannot come to terms on such a basic consideration?
 
JD
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:46:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Musical Confusion - Noone knows least of all Dylan himself

Stop being so JUDGEmental!
Is that what your saying? Or doing?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Let me put it a different way:   such talk is immature and reveals the carnality of the believer.   Good reasons for amending the attitude.  It was for me.  
 
JD 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:12:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Musical Confusion - Noone knows least of all Dylan himself

Let's share!!!!
 
Could you please pass the poison?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I missed the original post by Terry.   Good words for us all.   I do believe this all goes to why we are here  --  on TT.   to learn, share, or simply to learn what others think  ---   all that is good.   None of us on TT are kids.  We do not need to be warned that we are outside the grace of God or His community of believers.   Such talk is unproductive.   Thanks for the words.  
 
JD
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clifton <wabbits1234@earthlink.net>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:07:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Musical Confusion - Noone knows least of all Dylan himself

Stay tuned.  Maybe you can learn from observing others, possibly Dave Hansen.
===================================================================

Judy Taylor wrote:
 
 
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:33:59 -0500 Terry Clifton <wabbits1234@earthlink.net> writes:
I think we could start by being graceful, showing grace rather than sarcasm, being more concerned about loving our neighbor or our enemy than we are about pointing out errors in what they believe.  I am not suggesting that you adopt their position or that you compromise what you believe. 
 
I agree with you about the sarcasm Terry - however the above kind of grace could also be perceived as "being patronizing" especially since it is not possible to give anyone a hug or a glass of cold water.
 
I am saying that if you cannot agree, consider that they are being sincere even if they are in error, and with that in mind, very politely ask questions that will help them understand better as well as help you understand them better. 
 
I don't know how to do that Terry - I think Izzy is much better at it than me but sometimes her questions are
misunderstood and she is accused or less than godly motives.  What's wrong with believing the best of ppl
and questioning and examining doctrine?
 
Try to remember that your opinion and three dollars will get you a whopper at Burger King.  Do not over estimate the value of your contribution to the conversation.  You do not have to jump on every word someone else speaks, and when you do, it simply creates a situation where everyone digs in their heels and butts heads and everyone ends up defending their position instead of trying to understand what the other guy is trying to say. 
 
FWIW in this group I don't believe there can be a conversation without some butting of heads. What is believing one thing in the heart and speaking something else out of the mouth called again?  It's either butt heads or be silent.
 
Jesus, Peter and Paul spoke a great deal about loving others.  They said very little about winning a debate.
For what it's worth.  Terry
 
I don't know about all that Terry.  Peter and Paul didn't always agree and Paul and Barnabus parted ways over
John Mark - and these are just the few instances we know about .... Nothing wrong with honest discussion so
far as I'm concerned and some communication is better than none.
============================================================


Judy Taylor wrote:
We are all proudly proclaiming how right we are, but to claim that we are doing it in love would be a bald faced lie.  The fault does not lie with you alone as I have been as guilty as anyone, and it is not only the fault of the Fundies as the Libs can be just as mean spirited as well.
 
How would you say one is to love over the internet Terry?





 

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