Re: [TruthTalk] Judging by Doctrine

[Dave Hansen]

DAVEH:   Jesus Christ is my Savior and Redeemer.  Is that succinct testimony adequate, Dean? cd: I had the opportunity to speak to a man the other day who claimed he believed in God. My reply was : : Do you believe in the God of Abraham ,Isaac, Jacob? I got no response from him. The point is which Jesus do you believe in? The Catholics believe in one who allows worship of idols (ie. praying to Mary, dead Saints...etc). In my short time upon this earth I have found that one person in a cult actually believes that they are in one. Do you believe in a Jesus that allows more then one wife (ie. providing for death,adultery,abandonment)? DAVEH:  I believe there have been times when the Lord has not only allowed polygamy, but has actually encouraged it.  At other times he has forbidden it.  As I see it, most Christians only acknowledge those times when it was discouraged or forbidden, apparently without recognizing that some of the Lord's chosen people (including his prophets) had multiple wives without His condemnation. Do you believe in a Jesus that allows marriage in heaven? DAVEH:  I do not believe marriages are or can be performed in heaven.  I believe such unions are an earthly ordinance, that are meant to be sealed by one with the proper authority while in mortality.  And as Jesus explained to Peter, those servants who possess the power of the Lord to bind on earth, can join together man, wife and families that will remain bound together in heaven.....despite those who would wish to put such asunder.  That is the power of the Jesus in whom I believe.     Let me ask you a question, Dean.....Do you believe Jesus has the power to keep families together in heaven? Is the Jesus you believe in the only way to heaven or can this be obtained by works? DAVEH:   Without Jesus' atoning sacrifice, nobody could return to heaven....no matter what works he could perform.  First, without Jesus there would be no possibility of our resurrection.  There simply is nothing we could do on our own to overcome that chasm.....the separation of our spirit from our physical body.  Just as Adam brought physical death to us, Jesus alone made it possible for us to overcome that death by virtue of his resurrection.....nothing is required on our part, except being born into mortality.     Regarding works, Jesus atoned for our sins....making it possible for those who make a covenant with him to allow for the remission of their sins.  I believe that those who covenant with the Lord are first exercising faith, and then they are commanded to repent of their sins.   The nature of that covenant is evidenced by being born with a water baptism which symbolically washes away the sins of the participant, and the Lord in return gives the Gift of the Holy Ghost to the person being baptized, signifying that he is born again.  Besides having faith, repenting and being baptized, our part of the covenant we make with the Lord is to keep his commandments.  In return, we have the promise of salvation for those who endure to the end.       So.....Jesus has told us how to get to heaven, and then he cleared the way of all the impassable obstacles that would prevent us from getting there.  What barriers remain are those that are self imposed.....and a failure to follow in Jesus' footsteps.   Simply put, it is up to us to do those things that he has commanded in order for us to become one with the Lord in his Kingdom.  Do you disagree, Dean?     Do you really think I am overtly trying to lead TTers to hell?   Or, do you think I am inadvertently doing so simply by being a member of TT?   cd: I believe that you serve you master well DAVEH:   I do not feel I have served Jesus to my full potential.....but thanx for the compliment!     and are chomping at the bit to lead people to Mormonism DAVEH:   You do not know me very well, Dean.   <sigh>     BTW....When you attended the LDS meeting a few years ago, did anybody seem to be chomping at the bit to convert you?  And....have I exhibited any characteristics here on TT that would suggest I am chomping at the bit to convert you? ( the gate way to hell). DAVEH:   I'm sad that you feel that way.      :-( Weather or not you know whom you serve in not my concern-I know and that is enough. DAVEH:  Likewise, it mattereth not what you think of me....I know Jesus is my Lord and Savior.  That is sufficient for my needs in respect to what you think about me.       BTW.....I do understand your thinking regarding my beliefs in LDS theology, and I appreciate your concern for my eternal welfare.  However........FTR, I respectfully disagree with you in this matter.   cd: How can you respect me while warring against my God? DAVEH:   ???   Where did you get that, Dean?  Why do you feel I am warring against your God?   Have I done anything to belittle or condemn you, or your belief in God?   If you sincerely believe in Jesus....I have no quarrel with you.   I respect your belief in the Lord, even though I may disagree with the way you practice it at times.     That is not to say that I agree with your doctrinal beliefs either.  But I respect you as a Christian who is following Christ to the dictates of your conscious.  You do not even have to respect me, or my beliefs.....I will still respect you for your sincere beliefs in the Lord.      From my LDS perspective, I truly believe you and I are both literally spirit children of our Heavenly Father.  Even if you were to stab me in the back, I would still respect that heavenly kinship between us and pray that you would change your (backstabbing) ways.  I know that is sometimes hard....but I think it is what Jesus would want me to do. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... 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