Judy Taylor wrote:
DAVEH: I believe there have been times when the Lord has
not only allowed polygamy, but has actually encouraged it.
I'm curious about what you base the
above belief on DaveH because Jesus said it was not so in the
beginning. God ordained marriage between one man and one woman; He told
them to "be fruitful and multiply" When questioned about bills of divorcement Jesus said these were because of the
hardness
of men's hearts (due to the fall).
DAVEH: When was the law of monogamy introduced, Judy? IF
you believe it was initiated in the Garden of Eden, then at what point
was it first violated?
Well Daveh there is no record that Adam
had more than one wife is there? We don't know about Cain and Abel
but by Genesis 6 mankind was in such a
mess that God was repenting about ever getting involved with them to
begin with.
DAVEH: I'm not sure how that answers my
question, Judy. When do you believe the law of manogamy was
initiated? And....Do you believe those OT prophets who practiced
polygamy violated it?
Was there any prohibition against polygamy in the Law of
Moses? If God did not want polygamy practiced, there would have been a
formal prohibition, wouldn't you think?
Not necessarily - God knew what was in
man - just as is written of Jesus in John 2:24,25
and not much would
change before the resurrection.
DAVEH: If God knows they were transgressing,
why do you think he would not bring it to their attention?
If on the other hand, you believe God did not want men to live
polygamous lives, then how does one reconcile
that many OT people lived in polygamous
relationships....including prophets of God without being reprimanded
for it,
Mankind's fallen nature but this is not
what God ordained at the beginning: see Mark 10:6-12. I would say
that in God's eyesight a polygamous
relationship is also an adulterous one.
DAVEH: Those passages do not say such as I read
them. Do you believe that is the message conveyed in them?
Adultery was a part of the Law, yet many OT
prophets were polygamists. Logically, wouldn't they have been
committing adultery by having plural wives IF in God's eyesight a polygamous relationship is also an
adulterous one??? Yet the Bible does not
condemn them for such, excepting for the Bathsheba incident which is
clearly sinful despite it's polygamous overtones. Had David not been
married at all, his actions would have been a transgression, I think
you'd agree.
God may not have dealt with
this under the old covenant but today He
tells all men to "Repent"
DAVEH: Where in the Bible (including the NT) do
you believe He tells all men to "Repent" of polygamy?
excepting those instances where such action was based on
sinful intent and actions, such as was the case with Bathsheba. 2Sam
12:8-12 even suggests that in the aforementioned incident, God gave
those wives to David,
and furthermore would give those wives to his neighbor. Does
that not imply that God might be condoning this polygamous
relationship?
No it does not imply that God condones
polygamy; this was a middle east custom that didn't come from God.
DAVEH: I had not heard that reasoning before.
Do you have any specific evidence that suggests the Hebrews borrowed
polygamy from other nations?
Was David criticized by the Lord for his multitude of
wives?....No, just for the manner in which he acquired one of them. If
polygamy were sinful in the OT times, why would an OT character
described as doing right in the eyes of the Lord, only be chastened for
wrongly taking one particular wife? (1Kg 15:5)
God knows our frame and could be he
chose his battles.
DAVEH: I don't quite understand why you frame
it this way Judy. IF polygamy of the OT prophets were sinful in God's
eyes, it seems to me that it would have been easy for God to include it
in the Law. I don't see why you would consider it a battle from which
God would shy away...... Can you cite any other similar type battles
the Lord has chosen not to deal with?
You can see what this proclivity did in
the life of
David's son Solomon I hope. His pagan
wives turned his heart causing him to die young and lose the Kingdom
in spite of God's pleasure with him and
all the wisdom showered upon him at the beginning.
So Judy.....at what point to you believe polygamy became unlawful?
At the beginning .. I believe God put up
with it rather than ordained it. A man and a woman become ONE flesh
What kind of flesh do a man and ten
women become??
DAVEH: I suspect that is a rhetorical question.
I wonder how Abraham or other polygamous prophets would have answered
it.....
BTW.........What better way for men to fulfill God's command to "be fruitful and multiply" than by polygamy!
There is a family in Springvale, AR, one
man and one woman who prove you wrong, they have had 16 beautiful
children in 17yrs. I would say that this
family has truly honored God's command by faith.
DAVEH: I just saw those folks on TV a couple
nights ago.....was it Hannity & Colmes...or perhaps O'Reilly....?
Those folks sure have a lot more energy than me!!! :-)
At other times he has forbidden it. As I see it, most
Christians only acknowledge those times when it was discouraged or
forbidden, apparently without recognizing that some of the Lord's
chosen people (including his prophets) had multiple wives without His
condemnation.
God put up with a lot in former times,
Paul says he winked at it but he now commands everyone to "repent!"
DAVEH: When do you believe he told everyone
to "repent!" from polygamy?
DAVEH: Acts 17.......
29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to
think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven
by art and man's device.
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth
all men every where to repent:
31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the
world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he
hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the
dead.
........Seems to me the context of this applies
to idol worship. Isn't taking this out of context and applying it to
something totally unrelated putting an unfair spin on Scripture, Judy?
From the time of John the Baptist on...
DAVEH: Is such recorded.....or, are you just
assuming?
Do you believe in a Jesus that allows marriage in heaven?
Not necessary ..
DAVEH: Do you believe marriage is ordained of
God.....and that it is His desire for all to be married?
However, as you may know but may not have
considered......procreation on earth can be accomplished without
marriage. So......do you suppose there could be a deeper reason for
marriage other than simply procreation, Judy? For instance.....IF the
only reason for marriage were procreation, then why would divorce by
deemed so undesirable in the Lord's eyes? After child bearing years
are passed, what possible reason would there be to continue being
married? Wouldn't you think the Lord could/would allow divorces
subsequent to bearing and raising families?
People also procreate without marriage
because of sin and that because of the fall of mankind and rebellion
toward God. Divorce is undesirable
because it breaks the law of love.
DAVEH: Do you believe death breaks the law of love as
well?
Marriage is much more than procreating.
Marriage is teamwork, friendship, and
companionship undergirded by love.
DAVEH: Would not those same characteristics be
applicable in heaven?
Children are just for a season.
From my (LDS) perspective, marriage is much more than simply for
procreating mortal children. And, proper marriage (sealing) do not end
in divorce or death, as do marriages performed by most Christian
ministers.
If we looked at some honest statistics
Daveh I figure LDS marriages probably equal those of other persuasions
so far as divorce is concerned - and every Mormon will die married or
not.
DAVEH: I'm not sure of why you would bring that
up, Judy. I do not disagree BTW, but it doesn't have much to do with
our discussion any more than if I quoted....
Here's the really bad news: Barna finds that the divorce rate among
born-again Christians (27 percent) and fundamentalist Christians (30
percent) actually is higher than the rate for non-Christians (23
percent). And yes, his survey asked if the people had been divorced
before or after they became Christians. Eighty-seven percent said
"after."
.........It is an interesting statistic, but
unless I'm missing something......what is its pertinence to this thread?
The Lord has suggested that marriages should not be put
asunder, yet that is exactly what happens in a traditional Christian
wedding where the pastor proclaims the marriage will end at death. If
God does not want those who are joined together to part....why do you
think most Christians believe the Lord does not families to be united
in heaven?
Because marriage is temporal and
sometimes one partner dies before the other causing them to part.
DAVEH: As I see
it, that is the reason Jesus gave Peter the keys of the kingdom of
heaven.....so whatsoever though shalt bind on earth shall be
bound in heaven. What do you think those
keys were used to bind on earth, Judy?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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