Re: [TruthTalk] Polygamy

[Judy Taylor]

Well now you've got me curious JD.  Just where do you stand with regard to God's Law?

Has it been done away with in favor of grace or hasn't it?  If you answer in the affirmative then

how much of it is gone - all or just a part.  Then what scriptures do you base this theology on?

Hopefully we can clear up some misunderstandings.  jt

 

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:57:28 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Actually, you misquote what I write,    preferring your own understanding of my thinking to my understanding of my thinking   --------   and even then,  you don't get it.  Like I said  -- stick to your theology and let me represent mine. 

 

JD 
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>

I do know what you have written in this regard and how we have been around and

around about it many times and this is what I refer to here.   jt

 

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:21:45 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Under the New Covenant rather than being released from the Law's demands

as per JD. You do not understand what JD believes in this regard --

soooooooooooooooo please stop talking like you do.   JD

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:26:26 -0700
Subject: [TruthTalk] Polygamy

DAVEH:  BTW.......I'm changing the subject line, and responding in RED.......

Judy Taylor wrote:

 DAVEH:    When was the law of monogamy introduced, Judy?  IF you believe it was initiated in the Garden of Eden, then at what point was it first violated? 

 

Well Daveh there is no record that Adam had more than one wife is there?  We don't know about Cain and Abel

but by Genesis 6 mankind was in such a mess that God was repenting about ever getting involved with them to

begin with.

DAVEH:   I'm not sure how that answers my question, Judy.  When do you believe the law of manogamy was initiated?  And....Do you believe those OT prophets who practiced polygamy violated it?

Guess I didn't make it clear; I think if God wanted Adam to have ten wives he would have given him more at

the start and he wouldn't have made the pronouncement about a man and a woman being ONE flesh which

Jesus reiterated in the gospels.

DAVEH:   Thanx Judy.....that answers my question in a roundabout way.   As I see it, you are making some assumptions, and I don't think your argument is logically correct, but at least I know now why you believe as you do....thanx again.

    FWIW.....That Jesus and God are one, does not preclude others from being one with them as well.  Therefore, IF Adam had had more than one wife, I would think they also could qualify as one.

Mankind's fallen nature but this is not what God ordained at the beginning: see Mark 10:6-12.  I would say that in God's eyesight a polygamous relationship is also an adulterous one.

DAVEH:   Those passages do not say such as I read them.  Do you believe that is the message conveyed in them?  
Adultery was a part of the Law, yet many OT prophets were polygamists.  Logically, wouldn't they have been committing adultery by having plural wives IF in God's eyesight a polygamous relationship is also an adulterous one???  Yet the Bible does not condemn them for such, excepting for the Bathsheba incident which is clearly sinful despite it's polygamous overtones.  Had David not been married at all, his actions would have been a transgression, I think you'd agree.

As I have already said the OT ppl including God's prophets had a heart problem along with a "love" problem

Solomon carrying it to the max.  Under the New Covenant rather than being released from the Law's demands

as per JD.  Much more is required from us - we are to keep the spirit of the Law which includes being monagamous.God may not have dealt with this under the old covenant but today He tells all men to "Repent"

DAVEH:   "Repent".....Of their iniquities.....the question is whether God considered polygamy to be an iniquity in the OT.  That it was not a part of the Law, I would think it would not qualify as an iniquity at that time, and therefore not need repentance.

    Here's something to ponder, Judy.  The Law of Moses forbade a woman having multiple husbands, with death being the punishment.  However, there was no law preventing men from having multiple wives.  Either that is chauvinistic, or it would imply that polygamy had a more noble purpose.   As I see it, that reason include d building up God's people much faster than possible in other ways.  It apparently was so important that virgin women of other nations who were defeated were taken as wives for polygamous relationships.

 

DAVEH:  Where in the Bible (including the NT) do you believe He tells all men to "Repent" of polygamy?

When we come under the Royal Law which is love.  Polygamy is lust.

DAVEH:   While lust can at times be associated with polygamy as we see in the case of David, I don't quite understand why you would not also associate love with polygamy. 

No man can be a decent husband to ten wives or a hands on dad to so many children.

DAVEH:    Do you feel that way about David or Solomon, both who were favored by the Lord up to the point of their transgressions.   Solomon loved the Lord (1Kg 3:3), yet his problems did not arise because of polygamy, but rather his turning away from God.  The Lord did not chastise either of them for multiple wives, but rather for their failure to conduct themselves properly.

 

excepting those instances where such action was based on sinful intent and actions, such as was the case with Bathsheba.  2Sam 12:8-12 even suggests that in the aforementioned incident, God gave those wives to David,

and furthermore would give those wives to his neighbor.  Does that not imply that God might be condoning this polygamous relationship? 

 

No it does not imply that God condones polygamy; this was a middle east custom that didn't come from God.

DAVEH:   I had not heard that reasoning before.  Do you have any specific evidence that suggests the Hebrews borrowed polygamy from other nations?

I understand that when Sarah and Abraham tried to fulfill God's promise after the flesh by Sarah's handmaiden

that this was the custom of the surrounding nations.

DAVEH:   Methusael's son Lamech is the first recorded polygamist as described in Gen 4:19.   I would think that predates the theory of polygamy being borrowed from other nations.

It certainly was not God's idea and look at the chaos it

caused which is still ongoing in our present generation.

DAVEH:    Do you believe God's covenant with Abraham could have been fulfilled had he not been a polygamist?

  Moses had one wife at a time and so did Abraham

and Isaac.

DAVEH:  I did not realize that some Christians do not believe Abraham practiced polygamy.  I assume you are making assumptions that are not supported by Scripture....?  In support of my belief, Gen 16:3 explains...

And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

.....that Abraham practiced polygamy, as I see it.   Had he not taken Hagar as a wife, he would have committed adultery, a sin punishable by death.  That Hagar was advised by an angel to return to the situation, and then promised that her seed would multiply exceedingly......does that not suggest that the Lord did not find her actions (of living in a polygamous relationship) reprehensible?  Do you disagree?

     As for Isaac.....don't you fi nd it interesting that the Lord tended to favor both his father (Abraham) and son (Jacob) who were polygamists?  Through their (A & J) polygamous relationships, the Lord's covenant was fulfilled.

    Regarding Moses......he had two wives.  I would suggest it is just as likely he was married to them at the same time than not, though I do not think the Bible clarifies it.  Zondervan suggests.....

It may be that Miriam resented it as an affront to     .

........may have been the root of Miriam and Aaron's criticism for marrying the Ethiopian woman.

Seems to me like Jacob the deceiver is where the multiples began when he was deceived by his

father-in-law rather than by his own original intent.

DAVEH:  As I see it, Abraham qualifies as one who predated Jacob as a polygamist.   And as explained above, Abraham was not the first recorded polygamist.

 

Got to go for now - will have to continue later.....   jt

DAVEH:   Thanx for taking the time you do to share your thoughts with me, Judy.   I do understand that you disagree with me on these things.  But from my perspective, the Bible is pretty clear about much of this.  Either I am grossly misunderstanding it, or when we each read about these things in the Bible we are influenced by our individual biases to the point where we exclude other possibilities.   For instance.....when you look at some of the OT polygamy situations, you see the sin associated with them.  When I view them, I see the good that comes from them.  Obviously....our biases color our perception.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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