Re: [TruthTalk] What counsel would you offer?

[Terry Clifton]

As I see it, there can be no forgivness without turning from the sin that needs to be forgiven.  That means that they cannot stay in that relationship and have a relationship with the Lord.   The normal reaction here is to say "Consider the others that will be hurt," and there is nothing wrong with considering the feelings of others, but Jesus says you have to love Him so much, that by comparison, the love you have for spouse and children and self seems so inferior to your love for Christ that love for family seems more like hate.  Christ is the Alpha and Omega, beginning to end, start to finish.  What He wants comes first.  Self and family come second.  If He wants you to turn from your adultery, then you turn from your adultery, no matter what the cost. By now, someone is saying, "I know God better than that!  He is love'.  All I can tell those folks is to read Ezra 10:10 to the end of the chapter.  You will see a story of men who had also married women that they should not have married, and how they corrected the situation.  Even when it is painful, God does not comprmise with the Devil. Terry ============================================================= ShieldsFamily wrote: Other than sackcloth and ashes, what form should their repentance take?  They have never apologized to their ex-spouses for destroying their families, and still speak evil of them at every opportunity.  It seems like a hopeless situation, but surely God could help them repent.  If they did truly repent, would God call them to separate?  There are indeed so many couples in the church today that remain in marriages that are, in fact, adulteries.  But if they truly repent must they also be single the rest of their lives? And what about anyone who ever had sexual relations prior to their current marriage?  And, as DM said, Torah forbids reuniting with an “unclean” spouse.  It’s a difficult situation.  iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:23 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What counsel would you offer?   Mornin' Iz.  As I see it, these two are lying to themselves. To repent means to turn and go in another direction.  When Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and others called sinners to repentance, they were calling for a 180 turn, from sin, to Christ.  From living for self, to living for Him.  These people, if they still have sexual relations, are still in adultery and still in their sins, still living for self.  There is no forgivness that allows  continual living in rebellion to God's commands.  My advice would be for them to get out the sack cloth and ashes. You will not hear this much from the pulpit these days.  The pastor who preaches this will be gone and the adulterers will still be a substantial part of the congregation. Terry ============================================================  ShieldsFamily wrote:   Okay, add to Terry’s original scenario the fact that the couple that realized that they were living in adultery had actually been “Christians” prior to their adultery with each other.  They then each divorced their spouses because they were “in love”.  They now have a child between them, as well as their children from their previous marriages.  But now they claim that they have repented and are forgiven.  What is your advice to them? izzy         -----Original Message----- From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:08:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What counsel would you offer? Both you and JD seem to think that these two should stay in their adulterous relationship.  I want to say the same thing, for the benefit of the children if for no other reason.  Fact is though, that I cannot reconcile that line of reasoning with God's word. John, the baptizer lost his head for condemning the same situation between Herod and Herodious.  If it is wrong for Mr. and Mrs. Herod, it is wrong for Mr. and Mrs. Verage. When John said," You cannot have her", the message is that God will not approve of people living in adultery.  I can find no exception in the new testament.  Could either of you do more to justify your position?  I would also like to hear the thinking of Bill and David M. on this. Terry Dean Moore wrote:   [Original Message] From: Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Date: 11/5/2005 8:47:47 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What counsel would you offer?   cd: Tell me more about this adulterous relationship? Thanks.     cd: I understand now-I had read the letter as the young ones are in the adulterous relationship. I am going to step out on a limb and say let a person remain in the state in which they were called and hope I am not going beyond Paul's teachings.If you are called married stay married. The sin was in breaking the first covenant with the husband-once abandoned they are free to marry only in the Lord.Confess that sin and go on with life.        [Original Message] From: Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Date: 11/4/2005 10:41:13 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] What counsel would you offer?     I have run into the following situation at least twice.  Some of you probably have too.  Here it is.   Sally was cheer leader in high school.  If you were to choose a mate strictly on physical appearance, she would be right up there among the top five.  Billy was the typical small town football hero.  Billy went for Sally because of her looks.  Sally went for Billy because he was somebody, a big duck in a little puddle.  They married right out of       high    school. Billy was a big guy in a small town, but when the college coaches went shopping for recruits, they did not stop in Billy's town.  No scholarship, not even an offer.  Billy ended up driving the town       garbage    truck.  The marriage lasted a little over a year.  Sally felt cheated.  She deserved better, so she filed for a no fault divorce.   The following spring she met Joe A. Verage.  Joe was the son of the owner of the local super market.  Joe, in fact, was manager of the market, making a good salary, and sure to inherit the business when the old man passed on.  In time, Joe and Sally were married, and in more time they had a couple of kids.  About the time the first kid turned nine, they went to a Billy Graham crusade and were saved.  They started attending church, then started attending Sunday school and everything went well for a couple of more years, then they started reading the Bible.  Eventually they discovered that they seemed to be living living in an adulterous relationship. This bothered them a lot, and so they asked the pastor to tell them       what    to do about this.   You are the pastor.  What do you tell them? ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may       know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org     If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to       [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.       ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may     know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to     [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.       ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.