That is FUNNY I am still waiting for an answer of why DH thinks that Ex 33 (the scripture under discussion) God did not say MY name. Why did the Lord say I will exalt the name of the Lord? DH?
Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dave, the subject line defines the topic I originally brought up and thought
we were discussing. This has gotten way off topic. I guess since you want to
drag me back into this off-topic discussion before you answer my second
question you have successfully dodged having to weave an answer. I will not
continue to argue off topic.
It is a mistake to argue the contradictions of the mormon heretical
extra-biblical works, when mormonism fails on many many more egregious
points than the obvious contradictions of the Bom, PoGP, and D&C.
Perry
>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Moses sees god's face and lives in the PoGP!
>Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:06:16 -0800
>
>*Dave, ignoring all of your caustic insults*
>
>DAVEH: I find it rather amusing that you would say that,
>Perry.......considering you implied that I am Satan's messenger boy!.......
>
>/My argument is not with you...it is with Satan...and Dave is our messenger
>boy......./
>
>........and........
>
>/Furthermore, Satan (through Dave) has repeatedly issued...../
>
>..........Did you think you could toss out *caustic insults*, without
>reaping the same?
>
>* you have drifted off topic to the point of accusing me of dening things I
>have admitted,*
>
>DAVEH: I don't recall you ever admitting that Moses saw God. If I am
>wrong, Perry.....just admit it now.
>
>*If you can stay on topic and stop trying to accuse me of that, then we can
>continue.......*And*......**perhaps we can continue if you stop the caustic
>remarks *
>
>DAVEH: And IF I were to say that if you don't stop accusing me of being
>Satan's messenger boy, then we can not continue! Seems to me you are a bit
>overly sensitive, Perry. You call me Satan's messenger boy and then get
>your nose bent out of shape when I use *caustic insults*?!?!?! Do you
>remember when another TTer said to me........
>
>you big cry baby
>
>.......Seems like those words are more befitting of you, Perry.
>
>*The discussion NEVER was about whether or not Moses saw God*
>
>DAVEH: Huh?!?!?! Where did you get that notion??? That is exactly what
>the discussion was about, Perry! I initially made the comment........
>
>*Clearly the Bible does show that man can see God.*
>
>...........And, here are two of your related comments.......
>
>*Dave,
>
> You have made the statement "Clearly the Bible does show that man can see
>God." If it so clear, please show me so I can be clear on this, too. *
>
>.........and.......
>
>*Dave,
>
>Moses cannot see God and live in the Bible, but he can in the PoGP! *
>
>...........Now, please realize that I stipulated that Moses was *not
>*allowed to see God's face at that time, and quoted (and noted) passages
>that said such. But, the discussion precipitated from my initial
>comment....../*Clearly the Bible does show that man can see God */and you
>implied that was contradictory to what the Bible teaches. In the process
>of explaining in detail that the Bible sided with me on this matter, you
>then tried to change the nature of the discussion to say that man could not
>see God's face and live. As you can see from the above comments you made
>prior to that time, seeing God's face was not an issue initially, nor at
>any time subsequent, even though you tried to make it an issue to avoid
>admission of being in error. The whole point of this discussion was
>whether man could or could not see God and live. The Bible is very clear
>on this. Moses did see God's back parts. Do you disagree, Perry?
>
>*Are you back up to speed? if so, continue, but if you insist on carrying
>it off into the woods again, I won;t continue. *
>
>DAVEH: That's quite a threat from a guy who tried to change the whole
>nature of our discussion.
>
> Now.....assuming you will either answer my above question (/Moses did
>see God's back parts. Do you disagree, Perry?/) positively, or
>negatively....let me move ahead. I assume you believe Jesus is fully God?
>If so, how do you explain the apparent contradiction that people saw him
>and did not die from seeing him?
>
>*Either the mormon god had a beginning or he didn't...Moses 1:3 says he did
>not...you say he did. Go for it. *
>
>DAVEH: There is no point in getting another discussion started when we
>have not yet finished this one, Perry. The Bible mentions many people
>seeing God, and living despite seeing him. To me, that is a big
>contradiction of Protestant theology. And no....I didn't say that to
>irritate you. It is just one aspect of Protestantism that fascinates me,
>and I assume you would have a similar view as most Protestants about
>this....so, that's why I am asking you the question. How do you
>rationalize that apparent contradiction?
>
>Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>
>>*Dave, ignoring all of your caustic insults* in the diatribe below, let me
>>say that I did not give up on the discussion because I felt defeated or
>>had no point to make. I ended that discussion because I realized that, 1,
>>we would not agree, which we really never have, and that is no surprise,
>>and 2, because, as you often do,* you have drifted off topic to the point
>>of accusing me of dening things I have admitted,* and even have written
>>about and agreed with. *If you can stay on topic and stop trying to accuse
>>me of that, then we can continue.* But when you begin to drift I can see
>>that there is no use in continuing.
>>
>>Let me try to bring you back on topic, and *perhaps we can continue if you
>>stop the caustic remarks *and stay on topic...the topic was whether or not
>>Moses could see God's "FACE" and survive. You have taken it entirely off
>>track, changing the topic is on whether or not Moses saw god at all. Way
>>off topic. Once you do that, and begin to state that I said that Moses did
>>not see god, you are dealing in a fantasy world, and I lose interest in
>>trying to bring you back around...it begins to feel quit futile after a
>>few exchanges. *The discussion NEVER was about whether or not Moses saw
>>God*...the point is, and I made it clear, that Moses did see whatever god
>>presented to him to see...whether it was a burning bush, his glory, a
>>pillar of file, a column of smoke...Moses saw them all. However, he did
>>not see god's "face", whatever god presented that he referred to as his
>>"face". His "face", Moses did not see, or else he would have died, for no
>>man could see that and live.
>>
>>*Are you back up to speed? if so, continue, but if you insist on carrying
>>it off into the woods again, I won;t continue. *
>>
>>And for the second topic, it certainly is not a theological matter...it is
>>a logical matter. *Either the mormon god had a beginning or he
>>didn't...Moses 1:3 says he did not...you say he did. Go for it. *
>>
>>Perry
>>
>>
>>>From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Moses sees god's face and lives in the PoGP!
>>>Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:35:28 -0800
>>>
>>>*on to my second question**...how the mormon god, who is "without
>>>beginning of days" is also a created being, thus, with a finite
>>>beginning. *
>>>
>>>DAVEH: I hardly looked at, or even thought about it Perry. If you so
>>>stubbornly deny the obvious message (about Moses seeing God) in the
>>>Bible, to discuss something else that requires a lot more understanding
>>>of LDS theology is futile. You would never be able to understand it from
>>>my perspective due to your preconceived notions. The logic for
>>>understanding that it does not contradict the Bible requires a much
>>>broader understanding of the Bible message than you would be capable of
>>>comprehending.....which has become obvious from your perception of the
>>>Moses saw God passages we've just discussed. And.....you've stated your
>>>goal to denigrate my beliefs.......So why bother.
>>>
>>> Over the years I've been on TT, I've come to realize that most TTers
>>>(I won't even say Protestants) are very entrenched in their beliefs to
>>>the point that they cannot think out of the box. I suppose you could say
>>>the same about me, but I perceive it from a much broader perspective.
>>>You have confined your understanding to a very limited view of how the
>>>Bible is perceived, which is heavily rooted in tradition. Because
>>>theological theories have been founded centuries ago, and been previously
>>>thoroughly discussed by historical scholars, it doesn't seem to leave you
>>>much room to expand your thinking. The assumption that what you have
>>>been taught is superior to that which the Lord may have subsequently
>>>revealed clouds your thinking. Instead of looking at it with an open
>>>mind, you simply have declared LDS theology to be evil, and apparently
>>>assume that anything I believe is absolutely contrary to the Bible. At
>>>least that's the way I see it, Perry.
>>>
>>> Basically.....I would be happy to discuss your above question with
>>>somebody who would actually be willing to have a meaningful discussion
>>>about it without getting his nose bent out of shape and curtly
>>>declares.......
>>>
>>>*I am done with this topic. I have stated my position. /*Fini.*/ *We are
>>>not destined to agree, and that is okay with me.* Get you last shot in,
>>>then... *
>>>
>>>.........Of course you are done with it, Perry......your assumption was
>>>shown to be in error. But I was not done at all.....I had only discussed
>>>one aspect....Moses seeing God. It is obvious that your theory
>>>contradicts the Bible, and we had not yet even discussed the other
>>>evidences the Bible gives to show the weakness of your position. How can
>>>the discussion possibly be *Fini *when we have covered just a narrow
>>>window of the topic....Moses? Yes, you have stated your opinion, but you
>>>failed to allow the discussion to continue to the point of considering
>>>the other evidences the Bible gives that contradict your theory. In
>>>fairness to you, I had not yet offered that evidence due to nature of our
>>>initial few exchanges being limited to Moses seeing God. But since you
>>>have prematurely ended the discussion, it brought termination to what I
>>>consider to be a fascinating contradiction in Protestant
>>>theology......that most Protestants believe God could not be seen (without
>>>severe consequence), but yet Jesus....fully being God....was seen by
>>>many. So....it is quite apparent that you really don't want to have a
>>>meaningful discussion about these things Perry. Hence my reluctance to
>>>continue on to another topic without the ability to appropriately
>>>conclude the first one. But....if another TTer (other than an
>>>anti-Mormon) would be willing to discuss this aspect, I'd sure appreciate
>>>it.
>>>
>>>Charles Perry Locke wrote:
>>>
>>>>My second question? If you have no rationalization, just say so instead
>>>>of dodging it.
>>>>
>>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Dave Hansen
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.langlitz.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>If you wish to receive
>things I find interesting,
>I maintain six email lists...
>JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
>STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
>
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
