Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:14:23 -0800

So, you don't give a care about what the received text actually says  --  only how the KJV ex-Catholics translated it?   Which carries the weight of "inspiration,"  Kevin  --   the textus receptus or the KJV translationustus? 
 
JD 
 
Careful, now.  The truth is about to raise its ugly little head.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:29:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

Cause it makes sense those other times
 
Still waiting for other examples of "Being Sanctified" in the scriptures.
 
I will even accept corrupt translations.
There must be plenty. HINT try the RCC translations as they are a work in progress, eat enuff Jesus Cookies wear a scapular and you just might make it.

Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin wrote  >  The WORD for BEING is NOT in the text, just in someones theology!
 
I agree with you to the extent that the KJ translators inserted the word "being" in their translation of passive participles ten other times in this book of Hebrews alone. If there is a problem with letting theology get in the way of consistent and pure translation, then the onus is not on me to explain why they chose not to insert it an eleventh time right here.
 
And so, "that" is the question. Bill
That is not the question.
the question was hebrews 10:14 translated correctly.
 
Even the Nasv and the ASV agrees with the KJV


Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin wrote  >  The WORD for BEING is NOT in the text, just in someones theology! It has been inserted in a very few of the more corrupt and newest Translations.
 
Corrupt and newest Translations?  Kevin, I invite you to find the Greek word for "being" in any of the following verses. In each case "being" is part of the Greek passive participle, just as hagiazomenous is a passive participle. The KJ translators just happened to get these right:
KJV Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
KJV Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
KJV Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
KJV Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
KJV Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
KJV Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
KJV Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
KJV Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
KJV Hebrews 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
KJV Hebrews 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
Bill
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

Well my point was the word is at it's root Sanctify
The mood attaches a ING or ED making it sanctified or sanctifying.
 
The WORD for BEING is NOT in the text, just in someones theology!
It has been inserted in a very few of the more corrupt and newest Translations
 
As anyone can see adding BEING changes NOT JUST the MOOD but the whole MEANING! But that is the desired effect, just you are not supposed to know.
I bet the RCC translations read this way because that would be desirable for their theology

Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hagiazomenous   verb participle present passive accusative masculine plural [Friberg]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

What is the greek word in the text, that is to BE translated into "BEING" in hebrews 10:14?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They are not "being perfected."  They are being sanctified.   I believe that "sactification" is the work of God within the believer  --  its finale is expressed [in part]  in a visible difference  (holiness) between "us" and "them."   In this example, we are passively involved to the glory of God.   Perfection, in this scripture, is a done deal   --  Him dying ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME  for us. 
 
JD
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

KJV For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
 
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation   For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Youngs Literal translation for by one offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified
ASV For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
 
NKJV For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
NIV because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
 
If Christ's offering gives eternal perfection, as the first half of the verse claims, why does the rest of the verse say that we are BEING 'perfected'?
 


Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net> wrote:
cd: see the Bottom of page.
----- Original Message -----
To: [email protected]
Sent: 11/21/2005 10:08:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

 
 
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 06:27:06 -0700 "Taylor" <wmtaylor@plains.net> writes:
Since the theme has been that of perfection, I thought I would keep it going with a look at Hebrews 10.14. The KJV says, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." A cursory reading of this verse may leave one with the impression that the "perfected" are those whose sanctification is complete: they are, after all, "sanctified," aren't they? Well, not if one's concern is with holding true to the "pure" word of God as set forth in the "Received Text." In the Greek this participle is a present tense in the passive voice. If one were desiring to reflect that voice in his translation and thereby hold true to the grammar and intent of the "majority text," this participle would best be translated as "those who are being sanctified," thereby reflecting a sanctification which is passive (i.e.., the action is being pe rformed by someone other than the subject) and not yet complete. Hence according to this, Christ has perfected forever (a completed action), not those who are presently sanctified (also a completed action), but those who are in the process of being sanctified: a fairly significant difference, it seems to me.  Bill
 
So this is an example of how the KJV is in error Bill?
IMO the error is with your understanding rather than with the text of the KJV translation.  You have read something into the text that is not there and have made a straw man to knock down.  The word sanctification does not necessarily mean an action being performed;  the same word is used in 1 Cor 7:14 for an unbelieving wife who is sanctified (set apart, consecrated) by the faith of her husband.  In this sense "sanctified" means something entirely different from what you describe. So IOW "By one offering Jesus has perfected for ever them that are set apart, consecrated (or sanctified)." 
 
I have a huge banner that says the same thing you banner say on 1 John 2:4-I will send  you a picture of it sis :-)
                                         judyt                                       
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
                              is a liar (1 John 2:4)

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