Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Terry, here is my point. please take the time to read it.
Answer my questions to yourself, then please repond and let me know if
you get my point in this whole ordeal.
I will answer as honestly as I can.
Terry, would you consider having a similar conversation in your sunday
school class? Let you mind wander to your sunday school class, if you
attend one, or a prayer meeting or some other church function you
attend:
I would not initiate such a conversation,
in Sunday school or anywhere else, but if
someone else did, I would not have a cow.
Would you be at all shocked if Sunday morning a woman, lets say "Irma",
in your class asked of another member, Ray, "How about during sex, Ray?
I’ve read that you’re supposed to leave them [your underwear] on then,
too. True or false?" Would anyone be shocked at this? Would you?
I would consider this to be in poor taste anywhere. A little surprised
maybe, but
certainly not shocked
What if Ray responds, "Do you really think it is appropriate to discuss
such personal things [in a sunday school class] that is known for its
lack of taste at times? If you really want to know the answer to
personal questions such as that, contact me [after sunday school] and
I'll answer your question."
[ Ray starts to take the right tack, but then offers to answer the
question in private! Does this seem appropriate to you, Terry?]
Yes, it does. If this bunch is offended, take
it private so they won't all have a stroke.
Then Irma says, "You know I'll tell!".
[Irma is playing with Ray. Terry, does that seem appropriate?]
I thought that that was a humorous reply. Nothing inappropriate about
it.
Then Ray responds, "Wow Irma......I am rather surprised to hear you say
that! But it is nice to know you are not so hypocritical that you
would not be willing to [discuss in Sunday School] such personal things
as you expect me to share. Now that I think about it Irma, I'm sure
it would be much more interesting for TTers to hear about your sexual
experiences than mine. Do tell! "
[ Now, Ray asks irma to relate HER sexual experiences. Does this seem
appropriate to you, Terry?]
My turn to ask. Do you honestly think that
Dave expected her to comply? Can you not see that this was tongue in
cheek?
[And at this point the Ray has focused the discussion on "Irmas Sexual
Experiences".]
Suddenly, Jean, being offended by such talk, calls for the teacher,
"Where is our teacher? Carlos?"
[Jean is genuinely offended by this type of talk, joking or not! Does
this surprise you, Terry?]
Yes, it does. I seem to be the only one here
that can discern between humor done in poor taste and the unforgiveable
sin.
To which Ray quickly quips, "Do you suppose Carlos will know anything
about them [Irma's sexual experiences], Jean?!?!"
[ Ray is now taking Jean's sincere call for moderation from he teacher,
and turning it into an extremely dirty and suggestive question
regarding the teacher, Carlos, and Irma. Does this seem appropriate,
Terry? Before you answer, rememebr, Ray is only joking! Is this type of
joking appropriate for Chrstians?]
Might I suggest that you go work in a prison
for a decade, just to get an idea of what extremely dirty and
suggestive really is? Poor taste? Yes. Outrageous? I think not.
Now, Terry, if you tell me that this is the kind of sunday School
classes YOU attend, I will seriously question the spiritual sincerelty
of you and your class members! You all knew Ray was joking, BUT THE
JOKES ARE LACIVIOUS and the product of a PERVERSE mind!
I have already expressed my thoughts on the
opinion of the Sunday school class. I have had prudes condemn me for
drinking non alcoholic beer, not wearing a suit to church, and for not
wearing a tie to a funeral. My concern is what God thinks and He is
everywhere, with the possible exception of some Sunday school classes.
I will let Him decide whether these comments came from a perverse mind.
Next, Carlos pulls Ray and Irma aside and asks them to apologize to the
class, and especially to Jean, and even to himself for dragging him
into it. Even though all knew they were joking, SOME WERE GENUINELY
OFFENDED BY THE LACIVIOUS NATURE OF THE JOKING! [Terry, does this seem
like the propertime, place, or audience to joke like this?. Terry,
should a devout Christian be joking like this at all!]
I am getting the opinion that you and Dean are so devout that you won't
even smile, let alone joke. Who made the decision that this was
lacivious anyway?
After being asked privately to apologize, Irma immediately apologizes
for asking such a suggestive question.
She did the right thing. Admirable.
But, Ray stands up before the whole class and says, " You bunch of
whining cry-babies! You are all faking your offense and there is no way
I am going to apologize to anyone who fakes offense at my humor!!!
[Terry, does this seem like an arrogant and insensitive response from
Ray?]
Insensative? Yes, Dave should have humbled
himself. Instead, he pointed out your shortcomings. He was no more
arrogant than some have been to him.
Would you expect an apology from Ray? Would you feel like he was out of
place not only for telling these dirty-minded jokes, but for being
insenstive to Jean's genuine offense, for ignoring the teacher's
request to apologize, and for standing arrogantly before the whole
class and making self-righteous statements?
Yes. I would hope for an apology
Or,Terry, would you let it ride and expect everyone to sweep Ray's
inappropriate joking under the rug?
I would let it die on the vine. The more you stir crap, the more it
stinks. And yes, I would say that in a Sunday school class.
Now, while it is true that we are not in Sunday School here on TT, WHY
SHOULD WE AS CHRISTIANS BEHAVE ANY DIFFERENTLY HERE THAN WE WOULD IN
SUNDAY SCHOOL?
I do not behave differently here than I would
in Sunday school class.
Based on the illustration above, I accept Izzy's apology for asking the
initial question, I stand by my censuring of DaveH for saying what he
did, honor Dean's taking offense as genuine, and stand by my request
for an apology from Dave, not only to Dean, Izzy, and myself, but to
ALL OF TT, and stand by my comment that Dave's response to my request
for an apology was arrogant and insensitive.
Terry, do you get my point?
I get what you are saying. I just do not agree
with you. You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine. I
doubt that either of us will change.
Perry
From: Terry Clifton
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance Mur says: I have a sense of DaveH that
he ain'tgot it in '
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:48:16 -0600
You misunderstood, my friend. My sense of humor was not tittilated. I
did not even find it funny. I simply recognized that it was offered as
humor with no intention of denigrating Izzy or you. Like I told CD,
some people have their button pushed more easily than others. You see
a reason to see Dave as someone with a filthy mind. I do not. If that
causes you to question my allegiance to my Lord, I can live with it.
Terry
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
So, Terry, if I understand you correctly,
your sense of humor is such that it is titillated by someone asking
Izzy about her sexual experiences, and suggesting that I know something
about them, even humorously, especially before your Christian peers?
Hmmm.
From: Terry Clifton
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance Mur says: I have a sense of DaveH that
he ain'tgot it in 'em
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:28:45 -0600
I would like to apologize to everyone
for not being offended. I feel so guilty.
Terry
cd: Little wonder as it was not you wife who was asked these
questions-What
if someone did-How then would you feel then-Also the sinful undertones
of
such a question angers the Holy Spirit.Izzy's husband isn't here to
defend
his wife so I.... Strange that the Holy Spirit didn't speak to you also
as
sin was being prompted.
===========================================================
If my wife was asked the same question by the same person in response
to a question that my wife asked him, I would assume that it was good
natured kidding of one another. If I perceived his comments to be
demeaning or insulting, I would advise him that his comments were
uncalled for and ask him to apologize. I did not see that this time
and do not expect to ever see such from DaveH. He is probably the
closest thing to a gentleman that we have on this list. He and I will
never agree on theology, but that is no reason to treat him unfairly.
If you do not see it the same way, that is your privilege. We all have
little things that drive us up the wall. Terry .
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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