I meant to address the response below to "Dave".
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 12:39:27 -0800
David,
I will consider this as agreement. I believe it is the resurrection that
gave the gospel its power...you believe it was people seeing the risen
Jesus....whom they never would have seen had he NOT been resurrected. I
consider these ALL part of a larger picture called "the resurrection". From
the timeMary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome (Mark 16:1-8)
saw the empty tomb until He ascended into heaven. It all worked together to
validate his Messiahship and fulfill prophecy.
Perry
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:10:16 -0800
DAVEH: I really don't want to argue with your comment in a way that you
might think I'm denigrating it, Perry. But, I will give you my short view
in contrast.
The guards were put there by those who feared Jesus' friends would
steal his body (in the middle of the night, I would think) in order to
make Jesus' prophecies appear to be true. The fact that his body did
disappear does not in itself mean he arose from the dead. (Please don't
think I'm minimizing the resurrection....I'm merely trying to consider how
the Romans would have thought about it in a logical sense.) So...an empty
cross in itself did not indicate a resurrection. Not even an empty tomb
would indicate it either, as the Romans would have just thought his body
had been removed.....and, that is the story they would have concocted in
an attempt to convince others that the disappearance of Jesus' body was a
natural, though contrived, event.
Their attempt to prevent the disappearance, failed though. Have you
ever thought about what excuse the guards might have given for the missing
body? Since Jesus appeared to his disciples shortly thereafter, the
Biblical account really doesn't pursue this line of thinking. But, had
Jesus not appeared to his followers, the guards would have had to
contrived some story saying that Jesus' friends had stolen him away, even
though they had valiantly tried to stop them. There is no way they could
have admitted the resurrection of Christ, without revealing the error of
their ways. (Which they could have done if they had repented, but then
they probably would have been subject to death for their incompetence.)
I guess I'm rambling a bit here, Perry...sorry. What really gave the
resurrection power, so to speak, was the appearance of the resurrected
Christ to his believers. And...some of them weren't so convinced of his
resurrection, until they actually saw AND FELT the prints of the nails.
Once that happened, no excuses by the government, or guards or anybody
could overrule the fact that they had seen and talked to the Risen Christ.
I just don't think the empty sepulcher....which we know meant he had
risen.....had (or would have had) nearly the same effect as his personal
appearance.
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
BTW....Please don't understand my above comment to mean that I agree
with your statement.
Don't worry, Dave. From past experience, I did not expect you to agree
with my statement.
But, I'm not trying to argue with you about it....I just want to
understand why you made it, and what you meant by it.
I think it is pretty clear...my statement merely sunmmarizes the
scriptures I cited.
So, after you have taken the time to read the references in context, if
you then do not agree, please let me know where we differ.
Perry
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
/*_*The gospel didn't even have POWER until he was rose from the dead.
*_*/
DAVEH: Wow! I'd never heard that before, Perry. Is that something
you just made up, or is that commonly believed by many Christians?
*Dave, I take it you do not believe that statement, thinking I made it
up, right? *
Jesus had prophesied on many occasions that he would be raised up on
the third day (Mat 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 26:61; 27:63; Mark 8:31; 9:31;
10:34; Loke 9:22; 18:33; 24:6,7; 24:46). Had he not been resurrected on
the third day, that would have made him a false prophet, and all that
he said and did would have been for naught. (1 Cor 15:13).
Why did you think the guards were placed at the tomb? Why do you think
the seal was placed on the tomb? (Mat 27:62-66)
Everything Jesus did and said was ultimately hinged on the
resurrection. So, yes, the resurrection is what gives the gospel it's
power.
Paul taught the resurrection: Acts 17:18
Power by the resurrection: Romans 1:4
If not risen, preaching and faith in vain: 1 Cor 15:13
The power of His resurrection: Phil 3:10
Begotten unto a lively hope by His resurrection : 1 Pet 1:3
*
Dave, do you still think I was making it up? *
Perry
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