JD wrote: > You often have trouble quoting our very words > in a given post - and you expect us to believe > that you can speak for the likes of Judy Taylor?
I have never misquoted you or anyone else. What you object to is my pointing out aspects that escape your own understanding. JD wrote: > I have lost count of the rather important questions > I have asked you both, only to be ignored by Judy > and watch you get busy doing something else, only > to return after the questioning has grown cold and > meaningless. You will , no doubt, deny even this > -- but it is true, nonetheless. You are right, JD. I do deny this. I only admit to getting very tired repeating myself and you not taking the time to read very carefully thought out answers. David Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel You often have trouble quoting our very words in a given post - and you expect us to believe that you can speak for the likes of Judy Taylor? When we have our trist over the Gentiles in Romans 2, you and she both insist that these Gentiles must be regenerated (saved - born again) because an unsaved Gentile cannot do by nature the things of the law unless that "nature" be the "new nature" spoken of elswhere. You write - Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her? And I am wondering why you do not go and do likewise. Part of the confusion several of us have with both of you is bond to your unwillingness to be clear and consistent with what you actually believe. I have lost count of the rather important questions I have asked you both, only to be ignored by Judy and watch you get busy doing something else, only to return after the questioning has grown cold and meaningless. You will , no doubt, deny even this -- but it is true, nonetheless. jd -------------- Original message -------------- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read. I believe that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to believe. My belief is probably closer to yours than you think. I do not believe in the "total depravity" taught by Calvinists and I do believe that noone can come to or believe in Christ unless they are drawn by the Father and I understand this to happen as the Word of God is preached under the anointing of the Holy Spirit who convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. (John 16:8). So yes, I do believe the unregenerate can make the choice to believe. I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man believe in that which he cannot see? I believed on and received Jesus at a Street Preacher Rally before I understood there was a whole Kingdom that came with Him. Thank you for periodically giving your assessment DM. It's encouraging to know that not everyone reads and builds straw men to challenge what I write. In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something that they have been told is wrong. Unregenerated man also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her? David Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever." I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up." I do not mind being responsible for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd -------------- Original message -------------- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warning bought them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible to repent because of "total depravity" and this comes out of a misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Debbie Sawczak Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with directives to repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through which people are saved. It is Jesus Christ who is our Savior. Salvation is in him, complete with mediation on our behalf. Repentance is therefore our response to the greatest news the world has ever heard; it is our response to the good news of Jesus Christ. Amen. Lance, I now see what you meant today about the exchange bw Bill and David, having read the full message from Bill. The above is the crux, isn't it? It (esp the part I bolded) reminds me of what Victor said numerous times in his Human Person course: I know Christ first of all, before anything else, as my Saviour. The accountability, the repentance, arise out of that. D -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006 ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
