I don't disagree with your understanding that the root of temptation is found in the lust of our flesh, but the forcefulness of that flesh to move us in a certain direction is not the same in all people now, and it was not the same in Adam & Eve before the fall as it was afterward. There was an awakening within them toward knowledge of evil, and that had repurcussions within them. Therefore, punishment ensued and a protection of the tree of life and many other issues which I cannot now speak. Suffice it to say at this time that from my perspective, Adam & Eve were similar to the angels of heaven in regards to their innocence and naivety. They did not walk in the experience of what Romans 7 describes as our experience when confronted with a commandment of God. It took further enticement in their case, which worked with the desires of their flesh (the fruit of the tree looked like good food to eat), yes, but this alone does not come to the level of a "sin nature." Satan has a sin nature too, but this nature of his was not created within him in the beginning. It was the defiling effects of sinful action which has caused his sin nature within him. Now please do not think that I am Pelagian in my viewpoint. I'm not. I believe that man is born in a state of physical depravity, but in that physical depravity is related to how men choose to act, I believe that this physical depravity also corresponds with man being in a state of moral depravity. In this manner, the articulation of my viewpoint is different from that of Charles Finney, but I believe his message was right and needed to be heard at the time it was given.
David Miller. ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judy, Lance, Bill, John, David? As far as I know, temptation preceeds sin and sinning. And temptation appeals to personal desire (called "lust" by James). Human nature is sin nature. I do not mean to say that a sin nature sins !! Christ had this very nature - I believe you called it "sinful flesh" on several occasions in the past. Well, sinful nature or sinful flesh means the same to me. JD wrote: > Regarding Adam and Eve - if they did not have a > "sinful nature" before their decision to disobey the > Lord, they would have never disobeyed Him !! What is your basis for this assumption, John? My answer to this question is found in my statement above. DM writes: It was the defiling nature of sin, and the selfish nature of a genetic evolutionary force, which has produced the sin nature that we observe in man today. Speculation will get you nowhere, David. Sin does not have a defiling nature outside a continued involvement with our personal lusts. Yu define an evolutionary force in terms of a selfish nature ?? And what in the world is a genetic evolutionary force when it comes to sin.? AND how can we resist a selfish nature that is a product of a genetic evolutionary force? James, as I read him, believed that sin had no force apart from the desires of man and is conceived of our desires. jd -------------- Original message -------------- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > JD wrote: > > Regarding Adam and Eve - if they did not have a > > "sinful nature" before their decision to disobey the > > Lord, they would have never disobeyed Him !! > > What is your basis for this assumption, John? > > Consider the following passage: > > Ezekiel 28:15 > (15) Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, > till > iniquity was found in thee. > > Do you think the angels that sinned also were created with a sin nature? > > >From my perspective, Adam & Eve did NOT have a sinful nature as part of > their constituency. It was the defiling nature of sin, and the selfish > nature of a genetic evolutionary force, which has produced the sin nature > that we observe in man today. > > David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
