Re: [TruthTalk] Question Regarding Covenants & Salvation

[Dave Hansen]

With the Father in heaven. DAVEH:   Hmmmmmm.......I did not expect that to be your answer. it seems to me that you perceive the authority of the one who does the baptizing as being very important. DAVEH:  Yes.  From our previous discussions, you may remember that I view the rebaptism by Paul....... Acts.19 [1] And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, [2] He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. [3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. [4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. [7] And all the men were about twelve. ........as evidence that a proper baptism is essential.  It seems obvious (to me) that whoever baptized them did not have the proper authority.  If faith were the pivotal factor, why would they need to be rebaptized?  These 12 had the faith, but not the proper baptism, IMO.  After their proper baptism, then Paul laid his hands upon them and conferred the Holy Ghost.  FWIW.....Jesus was baptized by John, and did not need rebaptism. David Miller wrote: DAVEH: With who do you think was Jesus making a covenant? With the Father in heaven. John the Baptist was a forerunner of the new convenant that would come through Jesus. His baptism prepared the way by helping people understand the elements of entering into this new covenant. Therefore, his stewardship had an authority which the Father expected all men to parake of. Jesus, as a man, partook of it also, that he might fulfill all righteousness. He aligned himself with the testimony and ministry of John that came from the Father above, and that is a covenant. DAVEH: With Jesus' baptism, was the reason not the primary reason to fulfill righteousness? Yes, and I view my comments as details concerning that phrase, "to fulfill all righteousness." It created a public testimony of alignment and participation of the covenant that comes through John for all who would heed the preaching of the gospel to repent, because the kingdom of heaven was at hand. Of course, the covenant of Christ far superseded John's covenant, coming with it the promise of the gift of the Holy Ghost. John's covenant was temporary, making way for a more perfect one through Jesus Christ. In regards to baptism, it seems to me that you perceive the authority of the one who does the baptizing as being very important. I see it to be more important that the one being baptized has faith. One who has faith in baptism causes the miracle of the new birth as a result of faith being applied. However, if one is baptized and does not really have faith, but only mental assent, then he does not experience the new birth, even if the authority of the one baptizing him was from God. Does this properly characterize our differences about baptism from your perspective? David Miller. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.