cd: Respectfully David -Judy has stated dozens of times that
she believes Christ came in the flesh. Yet the group keeps denying she
denying she said this.Why can't people hear her?
It is not a question of whether she
believes in some form of flesh-like substance, Dean. It is a question
of whether she believes Jesus came in the flesh identified in Scripture.
jt: Identified in scripture? Nowhere
in scripture are you told that Jesus Christ is born into this world with a
fallen Adamic nature. You read this into scripture because of your
"positional" type gospel Bill.
When John states that Christ came in the
flesh, he is speaking of the very same flesh that Peter speaks of in his
Pentecost sermon: flesh which came from the fruit of David's loins
according to the flesh.
jt: The word flesh in scripture "sarx" does
not even have to mean the physical body Bill - flesh is also used for the
carnal nature. Mary and Joseph were both in David's lineage.
So?? Why the hangup with loins when Jesus had no earthly
father?
Hence when John writes that it is a spirit
of anti-Christ which claims that Christ did not "come in the flesh," he is
speaking of a denial of this exact same flesh -- the very flesh which he
later identifies as the "'Genos' of David" (see Rev 22.16).
What is this genos? Our
English versions of the Bible follow the KJV when translating this Greek
word. They call it "offspring," as in, Christ is the "Offspring of
David," which is fine, as long as we are aware that genos is
also the root for our English word "genome," which is defined as "the
ordering of genes in a haploid set of chromosomes of a particular organism;
the full DNA sequence of an organism; 'the human genome contains
approximately three billion chemical base pairs'"
(WordNet ®
2.0, © 2003 Princeton
University). Am I arguing that John
understood the intricacies of the human genome when using this word to
speak of Christ's humanity? No, I am not -- and neither did the translators
of the KJV, nor even most of the translators of our newer versions.
jt: No Bill; what you and John are actually
doing is denying the virgin birth ....
But Jesus did, and it was he whom John was
quoting in this passage (and this under the inspiration of the Holy
Spirit!). Yes, it is possible that John wrote knowing only that Jesus
was a direct descendant of David, but Jesus spoke knowing full
well that it would be two thousand years before the full impact of
his utterance could even begin to be felt!
jt: The Holy Spirit is the one who speaks
through the prophets Bill... and none of them are saying what you
claim.
And so, Dean, I ask you: What exactly is
being denied when John speaks of the denial of Christ come in the flesh? It
is the entire human substance of the Christ of Scripture: his
complete human genome, nearly three billion pairs! What "flesh" is
there left to affirm once one has denied its entire DNA sequence? My
goodness, Dean, it is time to recognize that it is not just the
Gnostics who deny a human Jesus. It is anyone who denies that Jesus Christ
is the "Genetic Descendant of David"!
jt: You Bill are full of
malarkey.
Dean, it is one thing not to know what we
do about genes and genetics and the human genome (all words which find
their source in genos), and to then assume that Christ's flesh
was made of some sort of substance similar to but unlike that
of fallen humanity; but it borders on blasphemy to know what we do
about the human genos and then
claim that the flesh which John identifies as "Offspring" is not both
explicitly and genetically linked to that of fallen David and Abraham
-- and Adam.
jt: No it is the seed of the woman germinated by
the Holy Spirit. Fallen humanity come here by way of
procreation. Jesus did not.
Tell me - who is in denial around
here??
Bill
----- Original Message -----
