Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:02:17 -0800

This is as good a brief on this matter as I have read.  I thought this point was especially good    But because this relationship is not semetrical either, we do not have to give into that old man   
 
We read,  I read, others and that reading I add those comments to what I already hold to be true.  In time, it becomes a part of who I am  -  I possess the agreeable thoughts of others.   In the possessing, these comments will reflect the intellectual nest into which they have landed  (my little brain) and when expressed  -  they may or may not be representative  (exactly) of the original author. 
 
Having said all that,  here is what Bill's comments said to me.   "Symmetrical"  speaks of balance  -  equal proportion.   The two natures are not equally weighted against each other.   The Spirit has the advantage.   As a result, daily we can say no.
 
And what is the difference between this and David's notion of perfectionism  (as I call it, understanding, of course, that David means to include the Spirit.)  A serious question  -- not a criticism.
 
jd
 
 
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 
 
Dean writes:  . . . we were brought to His state as Christians.
 
And from this morning: Bill I hesitate to answer this as I am not sure where you stand on the issue of: Did Christ appear in the Heathen state or in the state we are now as Christians. As a Christian I have all the human genes that you mentioned yet I am different from Hitler. I have flesh and Blood but am a new creature in Christ conformed to His image. If I state that I agree with you then what am I agreeing to?Enlighten me?
 
First of all, Dean, the fact that Christ is the "genos of David" should have no bearing on whether you agree with me or not. It is Jesus who declares it -- not me. He came in the flesh of David and Abraham and Adam. You figure it out. That aside, I'll share a couple thoughts:
1) The ressurected Christ does not have the same nature in his humanity that he did prior to his crucifixion. He took on sinful flesh to condemn sin in the flesh. This he did in his life, death, and resurrection -- sin totally condemned, totally defeated! Thus his resurrected humanity is "perfected," now completely victorious. Sin, death, and the devil have absolutely no bearing upon his resurrected humanity; for in his resurrection the tyrants are totally defeated, death being the last enemy to fall -- as we too will discover in the resurrection: "Death is swallowed up in victory. O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
 
2) You keep speaking of Jesus, prior to the crucifixion, as having had the same nature we have now as Christians on the other side of the cross. But that is not so. Paul writes, "Therefore, from now on, we regard no man according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer" (2Cor 5.16). There is no new birth or new man or new creation apart from the resurrection. It is the glorified Christ who sends us his Spirit, not Christ before having finished the work which he came to do. Why do you suppose he did not send the Counselor until after his ressurection? Because the tyants had not yet been fully defeated. Ah but in his resurrection there is new birth, a new man, a new creation. We are born into his absolute victory over sin, death, and the devil. Hence, we are now engaged in a daily struggle between two natures, our old flesh nature that wants to return to its former ways, and the new resurr ected nature of Christ. But because this relationship is not semetrical either, we do not have to give into that old man; we can put him to death every day. In other words, "Christ in us, the hope of glory" is Christ resurrected and ascended. "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me" (Gal 2.19). 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Moore
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Taylor
Sent: 2/1/2006 8:40:22 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

You are still blending the natures of Christ, Dean. The result is mixing you up. The Divinity of Christ was in no way tainted by his humanity. As God and man, Christ defeated sin in his own flesh, rendering it powerless in his resurrection from the grave. In the new birth we are born into his resurrection, new creatures; hence we are given life from beyond the tomb, where sin, death, and the devil cannot reach us -- if, that is, we daily put to death that old man who still wants to rear his head. 
 
Dean, I say this with the utmost sincerity: You really do need to let go of your alloy view of Jesus; it can only confuse you.
 
Bill
cd: This is also getting old John-Christ never came in the heathen state we were brought to His state as Christians. Think about it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Moore
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Taylor
Sent: 1/31/2006 11:19:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?

 
cd writes: So I ask you How is one able to produce destruction for men while the other produces a quickening spirit for men?

 

And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. 

-- 1 Corinthians 15.45-47

The first Adam was made from dust and received from God the breath of life. His mandate was one: "Be fruitful and multiply." But rather than doing what he was told, Adam chose instead to do the inexplicable. Adam's sin brought death not only to himself but also to all of his descendants -- Jesus included. What did the first Adam produce? He produced death.

The second Adam was born into the fall of the first. But he was also God. In this one person of Christ God and man came together and accomplished what man alone could not do: the undoing of the first Adam. Throughout his life, Christ's response to the fall was not to sin, not to do what Adam had done, but to do his Father's will. Hence in his person, Christ reclaimed Adam's posterity (not to mention Adam himself), defeating what had brought death to them all. Then Christ paid the ultimate price: he died on their behalf. Ah, but because he had defeated in his own flesh that which had condemned the flesh of Adam, death had no power to hold him. Now in ascension the Second Adam sends his spirit to give life to those who could only die without him. Who is the Second Adam? He is the life-giving Spirit.

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cd:Right-Then how can can the Second Adam be the same as the first? You guys are stating that Christ was no different than Hitler but Hitler was the same as the first Adam "exactly the same"-in the above you show the second Adam to be different. This is our point.If Christ was the same as the first we are still in our sins Bill.

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