Hi David. I really cannot say it any more clearly that I have done in my brief paragraph below. That Paul is speaking of the sins experienced by homosexuals appears to be the case. But, as I have said, by the time one gets to 1:32 , he will see that Paul is addressing the large community and is leaving the subject of homosexuality behind. His point, over and over again, in the Roman letter is that man is a sinner [all men] and God is the gracious redeemer, saving man when he does not deserve it. If we loose sight of that purpose, we do not understand what is happening in chapters 1-2.
jd
I think the line of thinking here is that those given over to sin in the
extreme, such as homosexuals, practice a wide range of sinful behavior that
God condemns. A Jew might condemn an adulterer or homosexual in focusing
upon one aspect of his sin, but if he rightly looked at WHY God condemns
homosexuality, he would find issues which he himself is guilty of.
Therefore, he ought to exercise care before condemning them. This is a
reason that I do not condemn homosexuals. I teach homosexual relations are
immoral, and that people should have the freedom of religious _expression_ to
articulate this viewpoint. As it is now, anybody who teaches the Bible's
perspective about homosexuality are automatically falsley stereotyped as
being a hatemonger and homophobe. This needs to change, and it will only
change if Christians stop running away from persecution and stand up for
what they really believe, even if some claim they are being offended by such
speech.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
Oh, I have read the passage many times, David.
Chapter 1:32 individualizes each of the sins mentioned and applies them to
any who practice such "things." He is no longer speaking of homesexual
behavior by the time he gets to verse 32. And, if one includes 2:1ff, there
is little doubt that Paul has moved from the homosexual issue with these
words "...for you who judge, practice the same things (referring to any or
all of the above list.)"
jd
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I have pointed this out before, and will repeat it again now. Romans 1 is
> describing the homosexual when it mentions disobedience to parents. Read
> the chapter again. These are all characteristics of the homosexual,
> describing his character, and why God disapproves of the practice of
> homosexuality.
>
> David Miller.
>
extreme, such as homosexuals, practice a wide range of sinful behavior that
God condemns. A Jew might condemn an adulterer or homosexual in focusing
upon one aspect of his sin, but if he rightly looked at WHY God condemns
homosexuality, he would find issues which he himself is guilty of.
Therefore, he ought to exercise care before condemning them. This is a
reason that I do not condemn homosexuals. I teach homosexual relations are
immoral, and that people should have the freedom of religious _expression_ to
articulate this viewpoint. As it is now, anybody who teaches the Bible's
perspective about homosexuality are automatically falsley stereotyped as
being a hatemonger and homophobe. This needs to change, and it will only
change if Christians stop running away from persecution and stand up for
what they really believe, even if some claim they are being offended by such
speech.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
Oh, I have read the passage many times, David.
Chapter 1:32 individualizes each of the sins mentioned and applies them to
any who practice such "things." He is no longer speaking of homesexual
behavior by the time he gets to verse 32. And, if one includes 2:1ff, there
is little doubt that Paul has moved from the homosexual issue with these
words "...for you who judge, practice the same things (referring to any or
all of the above list.)"
jd
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I have pointed this out before, and will repeat it again now. Romans 1 is
> describing the homosexual when it mentions disobedience to parents. Read
> the chapter again. These are all characteristics of the homosexual,
> describing his character, and why God disapproves of the practice of
> homosexuality.
>
> David Miller.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
>
> Oh, I have read the passage many times, David.
>
> Chapter 1:32 individualizes each of the sins mentioned and applies them to
> any who practice such "things." He is no longer speaking of homesexual
> behavior by the time he gets to verse 32. And, if one includes 2:1ff, there
> is little doubt that Paul has moved from the homosexual issue with these
> words "...for you who judge, ractice the same things (referring to any or
> all of the above list.)"
>
> jd
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > I have pointed this out before, and will repeat it again now. Romans 1 is
> > describing the homosexual when it mentions disobedience to parents. Read
> > the chapter again. These are all characteristics of the homosexual,
> > describing his character, and why God disapproves of the practice of
> > homosexuality.
> >
> > David Miller.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
> >
> >
> > Thanks for this post. You do understand my concern? Socially speaking.,
> > the gay fellows can be most disgusting -- beyond what I care to describe.
> > And, most in their com munity defend their outragious public behavior --
> > which was rather surprising to me when I realized this.
> >
> > There is no doubt in my mind that Christ encountered a number of these
> > individuals in His personal ministry - certanly the evangleists and
> > Apostles did in their sojourn.
> >
> > It is treated with the same regard as most other sins , in the scriptures.
> >
> > For example -- it is on the same list as "back talking one's parents."
> > The first item on that list is homosexuality, of course. The point I see
> > from this consideration is not that homosexuality is no worse than
> > disobedience to your parents - rather that disobedience to your parents is
> > just as bad as homosexuality !! Sin is sin and it is terrible.
> >
> > jd
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "David Miller"
> >
> > JD wrote:
> > > Sodomite is a name we call people just
> > > as "nigger" is a word that offends.
> >
> > I don't see it that way, John. Sodomite is a Bi blical word, and it points
> > to a particular sexual practice. Furthermore, it reminds the hearer of the
> > Biblical city which brought upon them God's judgment for accepting and
> > engaging this kind of sexual behavior. The homosexual agenda has hijacked
> > the English language by adopting the word "Gay" for themselves. If they
> > can
> > incorrectly use the word gay, then I can correctly use the word sodomite
> > to
> > remind people exactly what we are talking about.
> >
> > Nevertheless, I ought to make it clear to you that I rarely use the word
> > "sodomite." In fact, I suspect that it is possible that I may have never
> > used the word sodomite, but I could be wrong about that. I usually talk
> > about the evil of sodomy, and I often talk about the University's Official
> > Department of Sodomy or State Sanctioned Sodomy or Government Funding for
> > the Promotion of Sodom y and Fornication.
> >
> > Your choice of a racial slur for comparison causes me concern that you
> > have
> > perhaps been deceived into thinking that homosexuality is a racial issue,
> > and that homosexuals are born the way the are. Do you think homosexuals
> > need special protection from prejudice just as other minority ethnic
> > groups
> > would? Are you in agreement with the legalization of homosexuality and
> > adultery?
> >
> > David Miller.
> >
> > ----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> > know how
> > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
> > friend
> > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
> > he will be subscribed.
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how
> you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend
> who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
> he will be subscribed.
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
>
> Oh, I have read the passage many times, David.
>
> Chapter 1:32 individualizes each of the sins mentioned and applies them to
> any who practice such "things." He is no longer speaking of homesexual
> behavior by the time he gets to verse 32. And, if one includes 2:1ff, there
> is little doubt that Paul has moved from the homosexual issue with these
> words "...for you who judge, ractice the same things (referring to any or
> all of the above list.)"
>
> jd
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > I have pointed this out before, and will repeat it again now. Romans 1 is
> > describing the homosexual when it mentions disobedience to parents. Read
> > the chapter again. These are all characteristics of the homosexual,
> > describing his character, and why God disapproves of the practice of
> > homosexuality.
> >
> > David Miller.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Interesting observation
> >
> >
> > Thanks for this post. You do understand my concern? Socially speaking.,
> > the gay fellows can be most disgusting -- beyond what I care to describe.
> > And, most in their com munity defend their outragious public behavior --
> > which was rather surprising to me when I realized this.
> >
> > There is no doubt in my mind that Christ encountered a number of these
> > individuals in His personal ministry - certanly the evangleists and
> > Apostles did in their sojourn.
> >
> > It is treated with the same regard as most other sins , in the scriptures.
> >
> > For example -- it is on the same list as "back talking one's parents."
> > The first item on that list is homosexuality, of course. The point I see
> > from this consideration is not that homosexuality is no worse than
> > disobedience to your parents - rather that disobedience to your parents is
> > just as bad as homosexuality !! Sin is sin and it is terrible.
> >
> > jd
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "David Miller"
> >
> > JD wrote:
> > > Sodomite is a name we call people just
> > > as "nigger" is a word that offends.
> >
> > I don't see it that way, John. Sodomite is a Bi blical word, and it points
> > to a particular sexual practice. Furthermore, it reminds the hearer of the
> > Biblical city which brought upon them God's judgment for accepting and
> > engaging this kind of sexual behavior. The homosexual agenda has hijacked
> > the English language by adopting the word "Gay" for themselves. If they
> > can
> > incorrectly use the word gay, then I can correctly use the word sodomite
> > to
> > remind people exactly what we are talking about.
> >
> > Nevertheless, I ought to make it clear to you that I rarely use the word
> > "sodomite." In fact, I suspect that it is possible that I may have never
> > used the word sodomite, but I could be wrong about that. I usually talk
> > about the evil of sodomy, and I often talk about the University's Official
> > Department of Sodomy or State Sanctioned Sodomy or Government Funding for
> > the Promotion of Sodom y and Fornication.
> >
> > Your choice of a racial slur for comparison causes me concern that you
> > have
> > perhaps been deceived into thinking that homosexuality is a racial issue,
> > and that homosexuals are born the way the are. Do you think homosexuals
> > need special protection from prejudice just as other minority ethnic
> > groups
> > would? Are you in agreement with the legalization of homosexuality and
> > adultery?
> >
> > David Miller.
> >
> > ----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> > know how
> > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a
> > friend
> > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
> > he will be subscribed.
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how
> you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend
> who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
> he will be subscribed.
