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Judy, I patiently wait for you to actually read one
of my posts for what it says. You may never agree with it, but you ought to
at least try to deal with its meaning. I have in no way denied that God is
"Father" throughout, nor have I argued that he is a mother. How ridiculous!
I cannot help but think it disingenuous of you to suggest that I have. If
you could be honest here, you would realize that I do not get "female gender"
out of any of it, and that that is the point of my argument.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:14
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness (jd
2 cd)
Bill it is not "creating anything in our own image" to say what God says
about Himself and He calls Himself
a FATHER, never a mother. How anyone can get "female" gender
out of that I will never know. Using similes
to explain love and caring doesn't change anything. The sad thing
is how far we have fallen in not being
willing to accept His Truth as is. judyt
Dean insists > To have a
masculine quality is to be a male.
Dean, are you willing to put your
proposition to the test? Isaiah 42.13 says
that "the LORD shall go forth like a mighty man; He
shall stir up His zeal like a man of war. He shall cry out, yes, shout
aloud; He shall prevail against His enemies." Does this verse stand as
indisputable proof that God is a male? It certainly attributes masculine
qualities to him: after all, one cannot dispute the fact that this
verse likens him to a mighty man and a man of
war. If your proposition is correct, Dean, we would
have to conclude, based upon this verse alone, that God is indeed male. But
what if the Bible attributes feminine qualities to God: by the same logic,
wouldn't that make God female, also? While you're considering that question,
let us read the very next verse: " I have held My peace a long time, I
have been still and restrained Myself. Now I will cry like a woman in labor,
I will pant and gasp at once." The Lord groaning like a woman in labor:
surely there isn't anything more feminine than the cries of a woman in
labor. Or how about this: "As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you" (Isa
66.13). Surely
you would agree with me, Dean, that to be like a mother who comforts her
child is to display certain feminine qualities. Or what about this: "You
neglected the Rock who begot you, and forgot the God who gave birth to you"
(Deu 32:18). Dean, the verb (chayal) used of God's giving
birth in this verse is otherwise used in Scripture only of women in
labor.
So what do you think, Dean: Do these
feminine qualities make God female? May I answer for you? Of course it
does not. These are similes, comparisons. They speak not of God's
gender or sexuality but his relationship with creation. God is
not male, just as he is not female. AND to claim one in abstention to the
other is to neglect the other as being every bit as truthful and
descriptive of our God. I am saying, let those comparisons depict his
relationship with humanity and not his gender. In Deuteronomy
4.15-16 God tells his people what he thinks of them creating him in
their image: " Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no
form when the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the
fire, lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in
the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female." We need to be
careful, too, lest in our language for God we make of him something he
is not.
Dean, please do not think when I defend
Friesen that I think of God as being in the least bit female, or both male
and female, as opposed to male only. I do not. When we read that
God created humans both male and female in his image, this is not a
reference to God's gender; it speaks instead to his nature as a relational
being, a being-in-communion: the Father with the Son and the Son with the
Father, in and through the Holy Spirit. That being so, there is no "image of
God" in humanity apart from relationship: the image of God is persons
in relationship with others persons and God himself. It is that which
reflects his glory.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006
8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rightousness
(jd 2 cd)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/7/2006 10:15:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Rightousness (jd 2 cd)
cd: Is Jesus male or female John/Lance/Bill-If he is God as
you say what is he?
Jesus is a man, Dean, and he is God -- two
natures in one person. Please stop confusing the two.
You create God in Adam's image, and
Judy calls us earthly minded: what a joke! Have you considered how close
you are getting to a doctrine which claims that God the Father
came down and had physical-sexual intercourse with Mary? You do
claim he is male, don't you? That's like saying, since he has the
equipment, why didn't he use it? This is ridiculous. "Male" is a
physical/biological term. "Father" is a relational term, the same with
"Son." You don't have to confuse the two. Yes, sometimes these
terms coincide, but they are not requited to. Please,
brother, stop with the accusations and smears (what has gotten into
you?!), and just consider for a moment what you are suggesting: that
God, being Spirit, has to have male attributes, over against female
or a mixture of both -- as if he must have something between his
legs or he can't be God. My gosh, people, he is Spirit; he
is neither male, nor female -- nor both. Stop with the
foolishness.
Bill
cd: I realize you guys will not accept the
Webster definition for the meaning of English words- as the rest of the
world does- and have developed a whole new language but that
is what I am using. To have a masculine quality is to be a male. God
doesn't have a sexual organ as one is not needed in heaven as He can
create humans from rocks or bones and still be the provider for the
family as is the Father of a family. Thank you for the using words like
silly-foolish and such like as you are only verifying my position in
Jesus Christ and building my future:-) Notice # 4 if you are
able-in the English language one can be male without the
organ .Hence a masculine spirit is a male spirit-What are you not
getting Bill-is all that dancing around making you
tired?
Masculine
M`ASCULINE , a. [L. masculinus, from masculus, mas.]
1. Having the qualities of a man; strong; robust; as a
masculine body.
2. Resembling man; coarse; opposed to delicate or soft; as
masculine features.
3. Bold; brave; as a masculine
spirit or courage.
4. In grammar,the masculine gender of words is that which
expresses a male, or something analogous to it; or it is the gender appropriated to males, though not always expressing
the male sex.
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